Am I Being Conned?

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by jeff williams, Jul 12, 2021.

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  1. The Happy Builder

    The Happy Builder Screwfix Select

    Plastic consumer units burn, some are self extinguishing plastic so they stop burning if the heat source is removed, others just burn in an uncontrollable manner.

    If you don’t believe me try setting fire to an old plastic consumer unit or just a cable knockout blank from one.

    Even if the house or flat doesn’t burn down a consumer unit fire could result in the property being unfit to live in until it has been cleaned and redecorated, as well as the required electrical repairs being done.

    I have a plastic consumer unit in my garage, I am not particularly concerned about it, but if the case were to show any signs of heat damage I would switch it off and check it it immediately.

    @jeff williams you do indeed have an old and obsolete consumer unit that is no longer considered fit for purpose, the best advice is to replace it. See if you can get some other quotes, but you probably aren’t being conned.
     
  2. The Happy Builder

    The Happy Builder Screwfix Select

    Incidentally, I worked on a job where the labourer threw an old plastic bath on a bonfire, if you seen that bath burning you would never allow anyone to have candles in a bathroom, particularly standing on the end of the bath.

    Another job one of the plasterers threw a cigarette butt in the skip setting fire to the rubbish in it, this set fire to the plastic rainwater down pipe and the guttering on the house, a quick turn out by the fire brigade saved the house.

    A fireman I know attended a fire with his crew caused by a woman leaving a candle on a plastic window cill, it burnt down setting fire to both the plastic cill and plastic window, which the fire crew managed to pull out of the opening into the garden.

    Anyone who thinks that plastic used in and around buildings is fire resistant, including plastic consumer units, is completely fooling themselves.
     
  3. jeff williams

    jeff williams New Member

    thank you everyone for your comments.

    in relation to the age of the existing unit I was told when I bought the house about six years ago that the electrics had been 'updated' but it would seem that based on comments here that they are probably still the original 80's installation.

    I had the inspection done because we are moving out and will rent the property out.

    I do not intend to use the sparks who did the inspection for a couple of reasons not really associated with the factual assessment of the condition of installation.

    those reasons being that

    1. he stated that it 'requires the following work' indicating that it was a necessity and has not indicated that there were options.
    2. that the quote stated 'Rectify issue with loose socket and switch fuse spur: £45.00' which was a clear attempt to avoid using the correct description of the situation which was 'replace two missing screws' and is an extreme **** take.

    my final question is when I have the work done - I will have the unit changed for a new one - can the new sparks just certify his work clearing the C2's or would I be expected to pay for a complete new inspection even of the bits previously passed by the original inspection?

    thanks again for all of your comments - I had been tearing my hair out trying to work out how I could get unbiased professional opinion.
     
    FlyByNight likes this.
  4. FlyByNight

    FlyByNight Screwfix Select

    True for a vast majority of items.

    One I know that is "self extinguishing" is a BT Master Socket. Mine caught fire after a lightning strike - there were smoke plumes up the wall and smell of burning plastic - however, it did not propogate.
     
  5. furious_customer

    furious_customer Screwfix Select

    I get why you are irritated with this price for something which seems to be a simple job - I am the same.
    But when I try to look at it from the other side, I guess the spark has to ask how did the screw come to be missing in the first place? Presumably because at some point in time someone has opened it up to try and resolve a problem of some kind. So he may want to do some test and inspection to make sure that he isn't just covering up some other issue.
     
  6. Tony Goddard

    Tony Goddard Screwfix Select

    1. he stated that it 'requires the following work' indicating that it was a necessity and has not indicated that there were options.
    2. that the quote stated 'Rectify issue with loose socket and switch fuse spur: £45.00' which was a clear attempt to avoid using the correct description of the situation which was 'replace two missing screws' and is an extreme **** take.


    You are correct in my opinion, he is taking the mickey, such a minor thing would for me simply be done, either at the time of EICR or when the remediations were done and not quoted/charged separately like this, and for such a high fee

    my final question is when I have the work done - I will have the unit changed for a new one - can the new sparks just certify his work clearing the C2's or would I be expected to pay for a complete new inspection even of the bits previously passed by the original inspection?

    The EICR you will receive from the inspector will read Unsatisfactory and list the defects. The electrician you employ to do the remedial works will issue certificates for each element of that work, which show the work has been done. Some, me included would, in this circumstance, issue a covering letter confirming the defects identified in the EICR had been rectified and listing the works done.
     
  7. Tony Goddard

    Tony Goddard Screwfix Select

    True thermosetting plastics don't readily combust, Phenol formaldehyde and urea formaldehyde (commonly known as Bakelite), which most plastic face plats are made from do not melt and catch fire.

    At high temperatures they distort, change colour and crack, before eventually crumbling, in the process emitting a horrid rotting fish like smell - this makes them great as electrical insulators. The old Wylex CUs were made of this stuff, as of course are cut outs.

    I asked a Crabtree engineer a few years back whether such plastics would be suitable for making modern consumer units, the answer was yes indeed they would, and would meet the requirements of non combustible, but the costs of making dies and the high pressure moulding process is huge compared with basic sheet steel fabrication, so no manufacturer was going that way.
     
  8. The Happy Builder

    The Happy Builder Screwfix Select

    I have a bag of long box screws in my testing bag, if I find a missing screw I just cut one to length and replace it whilst doing the inspection as a courtesy.

    But if the box lug is missing or the thread has been stripped it becomes a pain in the butt job, you can end up trying to fit the lug from another box or drill and tap a hole in the back of the box to secure it which can be fine if the box isn’t up tight against a brick or concrete block, but you’d know this from the inspection.

    I have never reported just a missing screw, the lug has to be an issue as well.
     
  9. Tony Goddard

    Tony Goddard Screwfix Select

    Yes agreed, clearly if the lug is broken then thats an issue, and if that was the case here the £45 would not be unreasonable to replace the box, especially a flush one.
     
  10. FlyByNight

    FlyByNight Screwfix Select

    And actions like that are what will win you customers long term.
     

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