Bedroom Lighting Circuit Stopped Working

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by Bodmatt1, Sep 27, 2021.

  1. Bodmatt1

    Bodmatt1 New Member

    Hi all,
    hoping someone can help with a conundrum i've got in one of my bedrooms.

    Back Story
    - Bought a house a couple of months back. All electrics fine and not touched anything electrical. A month in the Ceiling Fan & Light stopped working in 1 bedroom (both work off 1 wall switch). The fan unit looked dated so bought a new one to replace it. Fitted it, making sure cables went in like-for-like connections. Had a very brief (less than 1 second) power to it, then stopped working. Thought it might be a switch issue, so replaced that too. Still Nothing

    Today - Tested all supposed live cables on the circuit with electricians screwdriver. Permanent live into ceiling is fine. Put a simple light together to test cables at the ceiling. Connecting to Perm Live and Neutral and the light comes on. Removed the wall switch. No power to the live in cable, same on the way out of the switch. Out of interest I tested the neutral and earth cables also running into the switch. Neutral was as expected, nothing. But when I touched the Earth cable it has current running through it. This was connected along with the Neutral cable to the Switch housing. Therefore there was current running through the housing and screws!!

    As I said, I hadn't touched anything electrical and only switched out cables like for like when replacing the fan and the switch. I am at a loss as to what to do next. I hooked up the test light to the Earth cable with current running through and the Neutral at the switch, but it didn't work.

    I've checked the next closest light switch (about a foot away in the hallway). A Yellow cable has been used to to run a live into the switch. This is the same as I have running into the Switch in the bedroom, but it has no power through it.

    Anyone have any ideas what is going on and what the problem might be? I can't get to the lighting circuits in the loft as it is fully insulated and stapled down?

    Thanks for any help anyone can offer
     
  2. Bodmatt1

    Bodmatt1 New Member

    Photos added for context. All other lights on the circuit working fine.
     

    Attached Files:

  3. terrymac

    terrymac Screwfix Select

    You need better testing equipment , at the very least a multimeter, or twin probe voltage tester,and ditch the
    Screwdriver .
     
  4. Bodmatt1

    Bodmatt1 New Member

    Hi Terrymac. Thanks for responding. Its not very often I do electrical work, but you are right I do. As a basic test thought its at least shown me that something isn't right. I've added photos to the thread
     
  5. Tony Goddard

    Tony Goddard Screwfix Select

    STOP, the earth wire should not be connected to the switch block!, where were the blue and yellow connected? Is this how you found it?
     
    terrymac likes this.
  6. terrymac

    terrymac Screwfix Select

    Re check the connection of the two red wires ( permanent lives) in that terminal block. One of them is the feed to the switch.
     
  7. Tony Goddard

    Tony Goddard Screwfix Select

    Note that at the fitting you have x 2 twin and earth, at the switch you have 3 core and earth, this means there is something else between the two, another switch (two way) or a junction box.
     
    robertpstubbs likes this.
  8. terrymac

    terrymac Screwfix Select

    Just viewed the pic of switch ,and as Tony said above its very wrong.
     
  9. Bodmatt1

    Bodmatt1 New Member

    Tony Goddard - No this is not how I found it at the switch. The Earth and the Neutral were both connected to the Earth Terminal which has a current running through it. So for safety I have fed the Earth into the switch to at least take the current away from Neutral and the housing.

    TerryMac - This is how I found the set up when I took the old fan off. The Black cable with the Red tape was into the Live terminal in the fan and the two red wires were both into the same port of the terminal block. Nothing connecting the Black wire/red tape to the permanent lives
     
  10. terrymac

    terrymac Screwfix Select

    Far from being safe ,to do that.
    Take the earth conductor out of the switch and put it into the earth terminal of the galvanised back box. Is the switch in your pic the one that controls the new light fitting ????
    As Tony said ,there has to be a junction box to join the two different cables if that switch is the one for your new light.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2021
  11. Tony Goddard

    Tony Goddard Screwfix Select

    If thats how you found it then someone, for some reason has used the earth as a live conductor, and thats a dangerous situation - you need to find the point that the 3 core connects to the cable at the light, maybe in the loft or at another switch plate or light fitting.
     
  12. Bodmatt1

    Bodmatt1 New Member

    What is confusing me most is that it was originally working, then it just stopped. Plus the current through the earth cable also attaching to the neutral cable at the switch.

    Could I bypass the switch altogether and just fit the new fan/light unit to the permanent live and neutral. The fan unit has an integral switch for the light and separately from the fan? Appreciate this doesn't solve why it stopped working but does mean I can get the light working in the room.
     
  13. terrymac

    terrymac Screwfix Select

    As I understand it ,thats not how it was found . The OP has connected the earth conductor to the switch terminal.
    Please confirm bodmatt1
     
  14. Bazza-spark

    Bazza-spark Screwfix Select

    if you have connected that earth wire to the switch and not tripped any MCB's or RCD's then I suggest you stop immediately and get a pro in before you either kill yourself or somebody else in the house. What you have done is stupid and extremely dangerous.
     
  15. Bodmatt1

    Bodmatt1 New Member

    Hi Bazza-Spark. Thanks for joining the conversation. Let me just be clear on how I found it:

    At The Switch:
    1) Earth cable (which has current flowing through it) was connected to the switch housing at the Earth terminal
    2) The Blue Cable (which I believe to be Neutral) was also connected to the Earth Terminal at the switch housing
    3) So both Earth (with current) and Neutral were attached to each other
    4) Yellow cable (which should be the live feed into the Switch) has no current
    5) Red cable (which should be switched live) has no current

    Having identified that there was a current running through the Earth cable, thus electrifying the Switch housing, I connected it to the switch Line In terminal for safety (for now). The switch was in the off position so no current was being transferred anywhere.

    So the picture is just illustrating that the Earth cable has power running through it and I am attempting to isolate that whilst the switch is off the wall. Its NOT showing that I have attempted to attach a genuine Earth cable to a live feed.
     
  16. sparky steve

    sparky steve Screwfix Select

    Believe you are out of your depth. Time to call in a pro to sort this out for you to ensure a safe resolution.
     
  17. Bazza-spark

    Bazza-spark Screwfix Select

    1 - No it doesn't. It has a voltage on it, there is no current flow otherwise an MCB or RCD should have tripped.
    2 - the blue appears to be part of a 2 way switching circuit, not neutral.
    3 - The bue was probably parked as part of a conversion back to 1 way switching.

    Your screwdriver is telling you absolutely nothing of any use and should be melted down for scrap!

    You have no idea what you are talking about and are carrying out dangerous practices. MCB's and RCD's should have tripped with that earth wire live, they haven't so it is time to employ a pro, end of!
     
  18. terrymac

    terrymac Screwfix Select

    The blue conductor is in all probability not a neutral .
    The neon screwdriver detects voltage not current ,and are unreliable .
    The earth conductor can carry small voltage which is induced ,not likely to be mains voltage.
    You have no voltage going to the switch from the ceiling terminal block where two reds are connected together,as I advised earlier RE CHECK those connections. If the two copper conductors from those two red cables are in good contact within that terminal block ,there is a disconnection after it and you need to find it and make good.
    If you can't do that pay an electrician to do it for you.
    The wiring at the switch needs sorting out too, particularly removing the earth conductor ,and connecting it to the galvanised back box's earth terminal.
     
    Bodmatt1 likes this.
  19. robertpstubbs

    robertpstubbs Screwfix Select

    Bodmatt1 - listen to the experts and get a pro to look at it. If you just jump to the conclusion that a blue at a switch is neutral then you clearly don’t understand electrics.

    Sometimes an earth is (inappropriately) repurposed as a live, but you don’t have any real evidence to suggest this is the case - eg what the other end of the earth is connected to.

    You haven’t responded to Tony about what else is in the circuit. The switch clearly isn’t connected directly to the ceiling rose as the cable is different types.
     
  20. sparky steve

    sparky steve Screwfix Select

    Just noticed date on switch? Have you replaced an existing switch? You do not mention in your op. BE5C7F76-B511-45ED-A424-C0B4C0AB71A7.jpeg
     

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