Reccomended tradesmen in a certain area

Discussion in 'Kitchen Fitters' Talk' started by Gogs, Mar 12, 2008.

  1. Gogs

    Gogs Member

    I'm not daft I know it needs paying for, I have ran a business before!

    I didn't charge customers everytime for my laptop that I used though!

    At the prices you charge you would have paid for your router on one job!
     
  2. Gogs

    Gogs Member

    Well done LAM it seems that more and more people just
    log on to moan about a skilled tradesmans quote! well
    if they dont want to pay for a pro job there always
    DIbloodyY:)

    I never logged onto moan, logged on to get an idea if it was high, reasonable or low!

    Not a bloody argument!

    For the record I have paid for 'pro jobs' in the past and had to watch them like hawks and one time had to get one out the property as he was a cowboy.

    I do a lot of the work myself like I have said but I know my limits and having never done a mitre joint then I'd rather pay someone who's done it hundreds of times and quite willing to do so.

    £50 for two doors, £100 for two doors and your man on here £150....do you think Mr £150 will do it better than Mr £100..would very much doubt it, I mean can you screw up a straight door swapout?
     
  3. Gogs

    Gogs Member

    So for this high tech job what am I likely to have bought that is so substandard, the worktop bolts are 24 carat gold.

    I haven't tried to take profit off materials, I have just bloody went and bought what we want, its actually normal you know!

    B n Poo..you mean Screwfix, same difference!
     
  4. Gogs

    Gogs Member

    Hi Gogs

    I'm in the Central Belt & the rates you're being
    given are comparable to what the rate is down here.

    Day rate is aound £150 - £250 /day. As per previous
    guys reckon you're looking at 2 days.

    Just on a separate point on your post, I personally
    dislike any job where a customer has 'got all the
    materials'. Rarely do they have everything needed!
    Nor the right quantities! Cheap carp out of B&Q
    mostly! Remember with any good tradesman you are
    paying for the quality of workmanship/finish as well
    as his expertise/views/advice, and that includes
    which materials are best from which suppliers.

    Jockster

    Doors are not the best quality but not the worst, not the best choice with metrics, I actually bought them off friend who had made a mistake when ordering.

    Handles are good quality, not b and q own brand

    Worktop is laminate worktop, its not granite obviously.

    None of the stuff is from b and q and I have all the bits required including polyurathane varnish should they wish to take the time to really make a job of the cut outs...think not!

    The only thing I dont have is dovetails....one guy said he would do this as well as using the bolts...I was under the impression you just used bolts and thats what one of them said?

    And so far I dont think anyone has actually answered this as been too busy jumping on the attack wagon!
     
  5. Gogs

    Gogs Member

    hi gogs.hope none of my comments have offended you.
    i know for a fact that,that work is 2days for me.im
    not the fastest worker but things very very rarely go
    to plan.simple plumbing of sink can run up a couple
    of hours if you hit a tricky double bowl or got a
    drip after its all finished.outlay is a new router
    cutter or 2.jigsaw blades and wear on circular saw
    blades.ive also calculated that the tools i use
    fitting tops set me back £750(all
    dewalt-router,cordless drill,circ saw and trend
    jig.)
    as for a mitre in 10mins,well i think joel was on a
    wind up.not that im saying its completely impossible
    but not in the real world on every job.for a start it
    would be a 2 man job too even contemplat this.then
    you would need a trial fit,possible tweak and
    recut,then its bolt up time.seal cut outs on
    sink......and so on.personally i think any tradesman
    worth his salt as you say would take the needed time
    and not sprint thru the job risking a mistake or poor
    result.in a way you can see the answer for yourself
    that you dont trust the guy at £50 and the guy you
    trust is too expensive at £100 for 2 doors.quality
    comes at a price and more importantly time taken to
    do it right.if youve got the right man for the job
    all beit a bit more than you want to pay then my
    advice is pay that little extra and hopefully get the
    job you want.
    i'd be very interested to hear from other posters to
    see if they beleive this amount of work can be done
    to a high standard in a day.no chance for me on my
    own.

    None of your comments have offended, dont get offended easily but not impressed by some people willing to put forward a load of blurb without acutally reading what work it is I am looking to get done and what I may have already done so far...cut the worktops I need mitred to size already..mmm that would be clever wouldn't it!

    I would trust the guy to do the doors for £50 but even if he was cheaper for doing the worktop I would have my reservation.

    When the guy quoted £100 for the doors it seemed to be like he had to make a really long and slow mental calculation, I mean you either charge £50 a door or £75 a door.

    I think the truth with some tradesmen is they often charge based on whats sat in your driveway, the size of your LCD or plasma or what you do for a living as thats a question many seem to ask!

    The argument of getting what you paid for, I got a plasterer in to skim a ceiling and he charged peanuts and done an excellent job yet have seen other jobs that cost a lot more yet the workmanship was poor.

    Same goes for Kitchens, I've seen the finish on friends kitchens who paid and arm and leg yet was terrible.

    How ironic to hear someone saying the customer rarely has the right amount of bits, one friend in question was missing a ktichen door for 2 months lol
     
  6. lamello

    lamello New Member

    My my you are angry man arent you? Firstly I need to tell you, my price has gone up to £200 for the doors, due to me having to implement a DCT(Difficult Customer Tax), sorry but rules are rules. Lets address a few of your concerns,

    1. Why should a joiner have to plumb a sink in for you? I dont as I prefer to stick to what I know, you can't have it both ways, either you want an expert or you want someone who will turn his hand at anything.

    2. My door price is labour only, I really only work on a supply and fit basis as I like to vouch for my materials, so you would need to demonstrate the doors have been stored properly and are of sufficient quality. Bearing in mind you bought them off your mate I would probably be politely declining you interest in having me work for you at this point.

    3. In terms of pricing basesd upon your vehicle or your plasma, that would be quite tough seeing as I've never met you ( having said that you do remind me of a loony customer of mine who I now refuse to work for, despite him ringing me repeatedly with new work)

    4. Quality of work does vary greatly, and people who consistently get repeat work at high prices generally keep up high standards. And in terms of messing up simple door swaps, I regularily go in and take doors out that others have put in weeks before badly.

    5. I terms of altering the tops, I for one wouldnt take the work on after you have altered the tops for depth, I want to pick up a fresh top and start from scratch, it sounds to me like you have either had a go at fitting them yourself or are using them as a temporary top now. Both of thes scenarios would have me backing out of the door.

    6. Watching tradesmen like a hawk is the easiest way of falling out with them, having said that I gauge from the way you behave that falling out with people is something you already excell at. Best of luck with your job I hope you get everything you deserve
     
  7. jockster

    jockster New Member

    Hi Gogs

    I'm happy to try & give some more objective comment.

    I reckon your day rate sounds about right. I charge £20/hr (£150/day), but have only just started out on my own so need all the work/recommendations I can get. I know there are guys around my area charge up to £250/day for various trades.

    My comment about the materials side is that some tradesman prefer to use their own stuff when doing a job. Or as you rightly mention put a mark-up on them & charge the customer for the pleasure. Me I prefer to use my own stuff, 'cos I know how it will last/perform. So some guys maight want to up their day rate or add time onto the job because it may take them longer(?).


    Fit new 40mm laminate worktop, just the one mitre and cut to size, L shaped job not a big kitchen, sink/hob cutout, walls pretty sqaure so dont see probs there. £100
    I recently fitted a U shaped kitchen out with worktops (Ikea - customer spec'd) no mitres (they wanted joining strips!!), 2 cutouts. Took longer than I thought 'cos none of the units were secured as the customer had fitted themselves. I'd quoted £60, but took me over 5hours & a box full of screws. Your job includes 1 mitre, and this takes time & the right tools to do it properly - router, jig, cutter. And your man won't get many mitre joints (maybe 3) from 1 cutter if he knows his stuff.


    New sink plumbed in...one joiner said not a prob to him but bit of hassle blah....£70

    I did my sisters kitchen before Xmas & fitted her sink took 4 hours, including a trip to the local Plumbing supplies place despite my sibling telling me she had all the bits needed! So £70 sounds about right.

    Hang 2 doors and fit handles, like for like, metric doors, 40mm thick so no door stop work £100..

    I charge £40 per door (exc materials), usually takes me around 2 hours. The rate around here varies from £30 - £60/door.

    So all in all I reckon the quote you got sounds about right. Beleive me I dislike anyone being overcharged, probably more than me undercharging! Hope this is a bit more helpful?



    Don't take some posters too seriously, they love to rile others up 'cos their sorry lives are so empty.

    Jockster
     
  8. lamello

    lamello New Member

    Steady on there jockster, why the need to have a pop about empty lives. I've no issue with you and you can reference off lots of my posts that I'm not on here to rile people, if I was on here to rile people I wouldnt spend 5 mins of my time telling someone in detail how to ensure they end up with flush worktops. Gogs comes across in exactly the same way that some customers do, knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing, these are people that you will encounter now you have started out on the long and enjoyable road of self employment. Judging by your pricing policy (£60 for fitting tops is lunacy, can I suggest that alienating people who can give you advice on pricing and running a business by sticking your oar in the middle of a discussion an having a go a someone randomly may not be particularly beneficial to you
     
  9. Wayne K

    Wayne K New Member

    I think £100 for 2 doors is a bargain, I would be charging £150 for what you describe.
    Worktops is again a bargain, without seeing the job I would have thought £200-£250 was about right for the tops & sink if your joiner was fixing & connecting the sink, a plumber would charge £100 just to come & connect a sink, You never said if the hob was gas or electric, if gas it's going to be £100 for the connection as it means getting a corgi plumber in, if electric the joiner would do it, but really shouldn't.

    The joiner is not only fitting the tops, he is taking the responsibility of your tops, if he hits some metal or stone in the top & the top chips which happens now & again with cheap or expensive tops or the front edge isn't glued properly & again can chip through no fault of his, who then pays for a new top, if it was me I would replace the top at my expense, as I am taking on the responsibility, so I charge accordingly.

    I couple of years back I was asked to do a small additional job while I was fitting a £9000 kitchen, it include me supplying a small amount of material, I said ok it will be £30, they said "how much! it will only take you about an hour", I then asked them what they did for a living, they told me they were an accountant, I then asked them how much made an hour, they then said "yeah ok, sorry, I never really thought about it"
    My corgi plumber charges me £100 for a connection if the existing pipe is near enough in the right place & he is only in the house about half an hour, that seems a lot to me, but I know thats the going rate so I just accept it.

    As to charging for the job or per day, it all depends on the speed they work, what machinery they have invested in, I remember the days when the only power tools I had was a drill & a jigsaw, a kitchen took me twice as long as it does now. How many hours do you class a days work as? I charge per day & that day could last between 6-10 hrs, if it's 6hrs work it means I cannot go & start another job so I'd still charge the same as if it was a 10hr day.

    Aberdeen is also a very expensive city due to the oil industry so I would think you would need to pay more than I am recommending. If you start penny pinching & questioning prices, expect the joiner to walk away. To be honest, you need them more than they need you, quality joiners are very hard to find & can pick & choose their jobs & customers, I know I do.

    Wow! I just previewed this post & it's really long, that's £100 you owe me.
     
  10. Wayne K

    Wayne K New Member

    Just re-read some of the threads, why don't you get the "first guy who was on the ball" to do the tops & the second guy who "did not fill you with confidence", to do the doors, that way you will save £50.
     
  11. cosworth

    cosworth New Member

    hi gogs.
    as been said dont take this forum too seriously and have a laugh at it.
    As for lamello when you joined the forum i read some of your posts and thought you were trying to wind up but now i enjoy your posts and see the humour in your comments.gogs see the funny side of him if you can.
    As for your tops and doors you have to take the best option for yourself dependant on how much your willing to spend.
    as already said i personally dont think you are being over charged(providing the work is of high standard) so take the positive from this and see that the quotes you have been given are at least competative.but be warned many people learn a harsh lesson by going for the cheapest quote as sometimes they get the cheapest quality.
    hope it goes well for you

    steve
     
  12. jockster

    jockster New Member

    Lamello

    Calm down to a panic matey! The guy is asking about pricing, shouldn't we give him our advice and thoughts? Not **** him off 'cos many think he is penny pinching. For the record, Aberdonians are well known for being the tightest folks in Scotland.

    DHowever don't remember mentioning you particularly Lamello. Reckon there are easily 5 or 6 posters on this topic, so not specifically having a go at you. Just read through the posts, some folks make a comment (maybe to rile others) and then don't help make the guy see sense. My point to the guy is that I am just out on my own so my rate is 'rock bottom'. I reckon he's getting a bargain at £270 (or a load of sh**e), only he can decide in the end if its all been worth it.


    As for sticking my oar in? Reckon I've been watching this post so reckon I've got as much right as anyone to pass comment.


    Jockster
     
  13. blueassedfly!

    blueassedfly! New Member

    gogs, all you need to remember is if your unsure CHECK the previous works of all trades, ask for refs from previous clients good trades are not afraid to do this. get more quotes if you have to, bottom line is all tradesmen will charge differently and all will think they are giving good VFM, but what matters is that at the end you will be happy to pay what was quoted to you, i know it can be a gamble to get good trades in so stack the deck in your favour! before accepting a quote!
     
  14. Gogs

    Gogs Member

    For the record, Aberdonians are well
    known for being the tightest folks in Scotland.


    Ah but Jockster, I'm not an Aberdonian, i just live here ;)

    I don't think I'm tight, needed a carpet fitted sharpish on the run upto chrimbo, guy was good and fitted in when was busy so gave him extra..

    Had a annoying leak from thermo housing on car, due to nature got hold of a mechanic who would be willing to carry out work at house, I got all associated parts and seals...amazing eh...no thanks to the 'pros' there.

    Mechanic in quesiton was telling me he was heading off to his daughters 2nd birthday party, he was a good guy, done a good job so chucked him a tenner to get his daughter something or whatever..

    Do I still sound tight!
     
  15. Gogs

    Gogs Member

    My my you are angry man arent you? Firstly I need to
    tell you, my price has gone up to £200 for the doors,
    due to me having to implement a DCT(Difficult
    Customer Tax), sorry but rules are rules. Lets
    address a few of your concerns,

    1. Why should a joiner have to plumb a sink in for
    r you? I dont as I prefer to stick to what I know,
    you can't have it both ways, either you want an
    expert or you want someone who will turn his hand at
    anything.

    2. My door price is labour only, I really only work
    k on a supply and fit basis as I like to vouch for my
    materials, so you would need to demonstrate the doors
    have been stored properly and are of sufficient
    quality. Bearing in mind you bought them off your
    mate I would probably be politely declining you
    interest in having me work for you at this point.

    3. In terms of pricing basesd upon your vehicle or
    r your plasma, that would be quite tough seeing as
    I've never met you ( having said that you do remind
    me of a loony customer of mine who I now refuse to
    work for, despite him ringing me repeatedly with new
    work)

    4. Quality of work does vary greatly, and people who
    o consistently get repeat work at high prices
    generally keep up high standards. And in terms of
    messing up simple door swaps, I regularily go in and
    take doors out that others have put in weeks before
    badly.

    5. I terms of altering the tops, I for one wouldnt
    t take the work on after you have altered the tops
    for depth, I want to pick up a fresh top and start
    from scratch, it sounds to me like you have either
    had a go at fitting them yourself or are using them
    as a temporary top now. Both of thes scenarios would
    have me backing out of the door.

    6. Watching tradesmen like a hawk is the easiest way
    of falling out with them, having said that I gauge
    from the way you behave that falling out with people
    is something you already excell at. Best of luck with
    your job I hope you get everything you deserve

    Angry...I thought that was you, just gave you a taste of your own, eye for an eye?

    What do you want me to say to you, you started off asking me why I wasn't doing the job myself if it was so easy which proves who is angry and never even read my post properly!

    Good on you £200 for doors, lad round the corner got 5 done for that, using his own materials too, b and q of course, only the finest.

    1. A joiner shouldn't have to plumb in a sink but like I said if it was my bread and butter, I'd make sure I was on the ball with doing it and obviously there are plenty out there who are more than capable. Yes I want an expert and the guy who will do the job does trade as a 'kitchen specialist' amongst other things.

    We all have out limits, some people out there do have more knowledge and ability than yourselve believe it or not.

    2. The doors are fine and not buckled due to being stored incorrectly out the back of b and q's yard.

    3. This was not in relation to you but due to a lot of tradesmen who seem to take a keen interest in what you do for a living.

    The only loony is you who seems to have difficulty in basic understanding, no offence to others but when I was at school if you were thick, they advised you go do woodwork...turned out not a bad plan for some right enough. And if you charge £200 for two doors then your right he must be a loony to continually call you!

    4. Guess you need to be pretty incompetent to mess this up, but you're out there.

    5. ALTERING TOPS....CAN YOU READ, I REPEAT CAN YOU READ!

    I have altered the straight run myself and that side of the kitchen is complete, FINITO....this is the second time I have highlighted this.

    I CUT BACK THE BASE UNITS, I BUILT THEM, INSTALLED THEM, BUILT WALL UNITS, TAMBOUR UNITS AND INSTALLED THEM..

    I CUT THE WORKTOP TO SIZE LENGTHWAYS AND DEPTH USING MY B AND Q OWN BRAND CIRCULAR SAW...NOT!

    I AM ONLY AFTER A JOINER TO DO THE THE L-SHAPED PART OF THE KITCHEN USING MY UNTOUCHED, UNMODIFIED (STORED CORRECTLY) TOPS!

    THIS IS BECAUSE I DONT WANT TO DO IT MYSELF AS I DONT OWN A ROUTER/JIG AND NOR WOULD I HIRE ONE TO DO THE JOB AS I KNOW IN THEORY HOW TO DO IT BUT NEVER HAVE DONE, I HAVE ONLY DONE IT BEFORE USING ONE OF THOSE NAFF JOINING STRIPS.

    So Cluedo you would be backing out the door eyes wide shut and that's after being told not once but twice!

    You on the ball yet before you blurt any more of your ***** out?

    6. With regards to watching tradesmen, its a good job I did with this plumber in question!

    7. What a tool, you must be clean off the top shelf! Are you high up on the spectrum!
     
  16. Gogs

    Gogs Member

    Gogs comes across in exactly the same way that some
    customers do, knowing the price of everything and the
    value of nothing, these are people that you will
    encounter now you have started out on the long and
    enjoyable road of self employment. Judging by your
    pricing policy (£60 for fitting tops is lunacy, can I
    suggest that alienating people who can give you
    advice on pricing and running a business by sticking
    your oar in the middle of a discussion an having a go
    a someone randomly may not be particularly beneficial
    to you

    Whoooosh thats rich coming from you, or do you make an exception for me, it might be beneficial for you to learn some social skills or perhaps reading would be a good start!

    I come across in what way, I came across asking for advice on bloody prices on a couple of jobs I've never had done before so if as you put it I know the price of everything then I wouldn't have posted would I you numpty!
     
  17. Gogs

    Gogs Member

    Just re-read some of the threads, why don't you get
    the "first guy who was on the ball" to do the tops &
    the second guy who "did not fill you with
    confidence", to do the doors, that way you will save
    £50.

    Yes I had considered that actually but would rather have one man in to do the work for the sake of £50
     
  18. lamello

    lamello New Member

    Right Mr Shouty, this is what you have posted in terms of reducing the depth of your tops.


    "I have all the materials etc.

    So £270 for that, I'm no expert, have put in most of the kitchen myself including cutting back base units before building due to tight stupid design house but no worktop to be cut back for this run as I done that myself..so I'm thinking how much hiring for a day...would this work take a day?"

    This to me reads to me that you have reduced depth units but the tops dont need reducing as you have done that part of the job.

    "I never 'indicated' that I had cut the tops down either, I had to cut back all the units on the far side due to wimpey design and obviously had to cut that top, I know my limitations, I have no problem with that and the job is done, what I do have a problem with is doing a mitre, if you go back and read you might just catch on!"

    This to me again reads that you on the far side( bear in mind that I cant actually see your kitchen through my computer) you have reduced depth units and have accordingly cut the tops down, the job of cutting them down is complete and you need someone to do the mitre on them.

    I may be on my own in reading them that way but thats the way they come across to me. As for the rest of your job frankly I'm past caring whether they get fitted before or after the next millenium mate.

    In terms of your attitude relating to getting someone in to do something, nothing annoys tradesmen more than encountering a customer who thinks they know exactly how long a job should take and how much its worth, seeing as you are unable to carry the work out yourself how would you know how long it would take? How do you know what someones day rate is? As whether you are tight or not the only reason you have bought the materials in advance both in this job and on your motor is because you are paranoid about being turned over, when I put my van in for a service I trust them to supply me with quality parts at a reasonable price, its called trust, perhaps you might consider developing some. Would you go in a restaurant and take your own steak in to be cooked, I doubt it. In terms of labour charges you clearly want to be dabbling at the bottom end of the market, if you dabble towards the bottom end of any market (say fruit and veg for example) you will find that the vast vast majority of the fruit and veg for sale will be not of the standard that would attract a premium price, to make an analogy if you insist on searching out the lowest possible price and find a tradesman who will fit in with your narrow and controlling parameters you worktops and doors will more than likely end up like the fruit and veg left kicking about after the traders have long since gone home, scruffy, bruised and unloved.
     
  19. murrmac

    murrmac Member

    ..."scruffy, bruised and unloved "...

    my life story summed up in three words ...:-(
     
  20. Fat Bald Martin

    Fat Bald Martin New Member

    Hi Gogs,

    Well this all got a bit heated didn't it!

    I have been away for a week so missed the Soap Opera stages,

    Just FYI I have detailed below what I would quote for this work in the two areas where I trade, I would guess that typical day rates in Aberdeen would be more expensive than Newcastle but less pricy than Berkshire.

    Doors assuming they are the right nominal size, ie no more than 10mm oversize on width and no more than 20mm oversize on height. Hollow doors £50 each in Newcastle, £75 each in Berkshire. Solid/Fire doors £75 each in Newcastle, £110 each in Berkshire.

    Worktops assuming 1x90deg mitre, Hob and Sink cutout, fitting sink including plumbing and waste, fitting hob but not wiring-in or connecting gas, both legs of L less than 2.5m, both ends finished with laminate strips; £270 in my home area (Newcastle/Northumberland) or £400 in Berkshire.

    I realise that these prices are much more than you want to pay but at this level I could take the time to do a top class job, (this would be 2 long days work for me) I get all of my work by word of mouth and always have to turn away work (maybe I should charge more!)

    Going back to my original reply, if you try posting something like "worktop and door fitting in Aberdeen" then describe the work required I would guess you would get more useful replies.

    Hope it all works out for you.

    Cheers

    Martin
     

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