worktop nightmare

Discussion in 'Kitchen Fitters' Talk' started by sherrilyn, Mar 17, 2008.

  1. sherrilyn

    sherrilyn New Member

    i had a kitchen fitted 8 months ago with laminate worktops. At one of the mitre joints its erupting directly above one of the mitre fixing bolts, what could be causing this?
     
  2. cosworth

    cosworth New Member

    hello. sounds like water has got into the join and expanded the chipboard.if it has then the top is ruined and only solution is new tops.
    have you allowed water to stay on the joins? spills should be wiped off and not left to stand there.
    does this sound like your problem?
     
  3. sherrilyn

    sherrilyn New Member

    how can water get in if its a sealed joint though? is it possible the bolt was overtightened? appreciate your help
     
  4. cosworth

    cosworth New Member

    its not uncommon for water to penetrate the join over a period of time.also depends on how the fitter joined them and what he used to seal them.
    i cant see that its to do with bolts to tight because you've had no probs till now i guess.
    the join should be classed as water resistant not water proof and its best to warn ppl not to allow water to stand on the join for too long.
    maybe you could clarify what exactly has happened?
    im assuming you mean its lumpy or raising in one spot along the join only and not the full lenght of join.
    off to bed now so check in tomo.im sure you get more oppinions before i get back to pc tomo.
     
  5. sherrilyn

    sherrilyn New Member

    Okay ill explain tomorrow, thank you for advice much appreciated.
     
  6. tea_time

    tea_time New Member

    Sounds like what Cosworth has said, or thats most common...
    also I know people like to sit in corners on worktops, while chatting, which "can/could" stress the joint. Allowing for water to seep in when spillages occour.

    Another thing which "can" allow water ingress is boiling water spillages on the joint especially if a fitter has "only" used pva glue. (the point being made here is "hot water on the join" as this softerns pva glue if left).
    Next question is do you have a washing machine or a tumble dryer under the join, as this will cause tempreture/hunidity change, which in turn will affect the worktops. Im going to assume not many people seal the bolt routings to prevent any moisture from being absorbed from the humidity of washing machines or for any tumble dryers which "may possibly be used unvented" to the exterior of the building.

    These are my observations anyhow...
    out of curiousity...
    what makes you wonder about cause being over tight bolts?
     
  7. sherrilyn

    sherrilyn New Member

    speaking to two independent people, their first thought was the bolts had been over tightened. there isnt a tumble dryer in the kitchen, and the kettle is the opposite side to the blown joint. if its due to water ingress after only 8 months would this be an installation problem?
     
  8. sherrilyn

    sherrilyn New Member

    we had the kitchen fitted by a "profesional" fitter. When they had supposedly finished the worktop had a run out of at least 1.5 centimetres from one corner to the next, we had to point out that this was completely unacceptable to which he agreed and replaced the worktops. at the beginning of February we noticed that there was an eruption on the mitre joint of approx 0.5 centimetres, which was directly above one of the mitre joint fixing bolts. We seem to be caught in the middle of a supplier & an installer with each blaming the othe.
     
  9. sherrilyn

    sherrilyn New Member

    i dont mean to sound like a punter, ( im in the car trade so i know what punters are like ) we paid 4800.00 for our kitchen to be fitted and thought we would be getting a quality job
     
  10. blueassedfly!

    blueassedfly! New Member

    sherrilyn, no offence intended but was that 4800 supply and fit, or just for the fit.
    are the worktops good quality or cheaper shed options?
    ive only seen overtightning bolts cause a problem once and that had pinched the joint upwards along pretty much the entire length.
    did your fitter use pva, silicone,colorfill or a combination, are the bolt rebates to deep? it is very difficult to pin the cause down, and even if you do you may come up short as it has taken 8months to occur both supplier and fitter could blame you! (not right but thats how life goes) talk to the supplier about possible faulty batch! talk to the fitter about refitting if you can get tops supplied, remember no one likes negative press, (LAST RESORT)
     
  11. tea_time

    tea_time New Member

    "at the beginning of February we noticed that there was an eruption on the mitre joint of approx 0.5 centimetres, which was directly above one of the mitre joint fixing bolts. We seem to be caught in the middle of a supplier & an installer with each blaming the othe."

    reading this part of your reply, I work for a supplier, we pre cuts joints, and I belive I'm correct in saying "our policy or even any suppliers policy is" that its the fitters responsibility to ensure the joints and worktops are installed correctly" so the supplier would blame the fitter for any installed problems.
    Unless its a manufacturing defect, which would/should have been noticed at time of installation and should have also been reported at the time, for any kind of claim.
    so I think you'l find the fitter is the one who's responsible for the joint installation.
    guess its like you selling a new car and the punter gets it scrached at a car wash, 8 months later it rusts... who's to blame.. isnt you who supplied the car..
    btw I have no idea who supplied your tops, just pointing out why your caught in the situation.

    if you could take pic's of the issue then maybe it would help to see and possibly give an answer to the cause.
    (upload to a free host and post the link for viewing.
    dont know if theres any rules about not doing this tho).
     
  12. tea_time

    tea_time New Member

    forgot to add like cordless king saids its taken a long time to occour so its going to be a difficult one to resolve regardless of what we post.
    and just because someone here might agree "yer bolt are too tight"! your fitter wont just say "ok i'l sort em"..
     
  13. bernieeccles

    bernieeccles Member

    Tea time

    As you work for a worktop supplier and cut joints, where does your firm stand on jointing materials.

    There is a recurring debate on this board about the merits of colorfill, exterior PVA, silicone etc,

    What do you recommend is the best .
     
  14. tea_time

    tea_time New Member

    I've seen the topic and im stayiny out of it hahahahaha
    the standard joints are machined on cnc,
    we supply colorfill in all joint kits we supply and its the fitters choice regards what products they use.
    as I have stated above "i belive its our policy that its the fitters responsibility to ensure the joints are installed correctly" regardless of what products they use.
    I dont deal with things like claims so I dont get involved.
    i work in the factory.
    I use colorfill on every job I make. I do inset postform work. and in my opinion colorfill is a good cosmetic aid to get rid of the glue line.

    why do i get the feeling this thread is about to be hijacked..

    leave this thread to the person who started it please...

    gotta goto work im sure i'l be posting tonight...
     
  15. bernieeccles

    bernieeccles Member

    Yes, but what do you consider to be the "correct" method.

    Come on now, don't be coy !

    If you can't give us the definitive answer, who can !
     
  16. tea_time

    tea_time New Member

    I have my own opinions but what your asking whats the firms thought on the matter ...
    BTW Im not here to advertise the place I work for, I'm here because I enjoy what I do and like to know what others do onsite as it were. Some of the things I've read on this board I have read with great interest,others I've been rolling with laughter and some Im in total shock at advise given.
    So because i dont want to mis-interpret the firms stand on this, and because I'm here formyself, here are the instructions given on the back of every board, which has a joint kit. This way anyone who has ever purchased from us will know this is public knowledge.
    (and theres also no come back on the firm).
    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/britnik/DSC00140.jpg
    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/britnik/DSC00141.jpg
    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/britnik/DSC00142.jpg

    As you can see (and from what I understand by reading it), its basically down to the fitters own prefrence.

    My own personal view is, I like the product for what I do. I have every colorfill to match every board I need to work on. In my own opinion it makes a nicer cosmetic finish on some boards where a thin line of glue would look out of place.
    Now PLEASE leave this thread, to the original topic.
    thankyou ;)
     
  17. bernieeccles

    bernieeccles Member

    Pretty much what I do except I never use biscuits.
     
  18. lamello

    lamello New Member

    Exterior PVA produces a much better result than silicone in my opinion. Hundreds of joints no issues, even in high usage situations. If you ask a chipboard manufacturer what the best thing to bond two piece of chipboard together you will get PVA as the answer.
     
  19. lamello

    lamello New Member

    Also got to say that the whole issue of glue lines is pretty irrelevant as a correctly cut joint using a quality jig,cutters, router should have zero gap ie no glue line.
     
  20. makita49

    makita49 New Member

    He loves to be right
     

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