Blending undercoat with eggshell

Discussion in 'Painters' Talk' started by NoodleSoup, Jun 28, 2011.

  1. NoodleSoup

    NoodleSoup New Member

    Hi, I have a decorator working on my flat at the moment. The agreement  was that I would buy the paints. I had bought some Dulux Brilliant white  from Homebase before we approached him to do the job, but he said he  didn?t work with anything other than trade quality paint. I have the  following.

    For most of the flat I chose:
    * Topcoat - Walls/ceilings: Layland Trade Vinyl Matt Brilliant White
    * Topcoat - Woodwork: Dulux Trade Eggshell Brilliant White
    * Undercoat - Woodwork: Dulux Trade Undercoat White (oil based)
    * Undercoat - Walls/ceilings: Layland Contract Matt White (mist coat for fresh plaster)

    For the bedroom I chose:
    * Walls: Sanderson Spectrum Matt Emulsion, Greige Lt.
    * Woodwork: Sanderson Spectrum oil based Eggshell, Greige Lt.

    *  Inside the hall cupboards I have chosen an eggshell from Dulux trade  which is a dark grey (can?t remember the colour code), which I would  like on the shelves, walls etc.
    * I did have primer for the fresh wood, although I haven?t got reference to the brand right now.

    The  plastering and mist coat was done by another set of builders. The new  decorators have sanded down the woodwork and walls very well, so the  surfaces were then smooth for painting.

    What I am concerned about  is that the woodwork is now very shiny. The decorator said that so far  there was one coat of paint on it. They blended together the undercoat  and eggshell, because of this the finish is shiny and patchy. He said  that it would be shiny because they blended the paints. He?s still to do  one more coat of eggshell. He says that the final finish will be  slightly shiny as he mixed the paints, and the shine may come through.
    Obviously  I chose eggshell as I wanted to have a more matt finish on the  woodwork! Otherwise I would have gone for satin or gloss.

    I spoke  to the man on the paint counter at the Builders Depot (New Southgate,  London), and he says that mixing undercoat with eggshell is unheard of,  and the only reason why my decorator may have done this is to save on  doing 2 coats of undiluted eggshell.

    Does anyone else do this? Is this acceptable?

    Also  they have used the sanderson emulsion as an undercoat for the inside of  the hall cupboards, which means that there is not enough paint to  finish the bedroom.  His reply was that he needed this as a basecoat as  the topcoat would be dark. The sanderson is a very very pale grey and  the topcoat is very very dark grey, so not sure how this works!  I did  ask him if I should get a dark undercoat for the cupboard interior, but  he said no.

    Why is it when I just ask questions they tell me to back off, get out of my flat and don?t interfere.
     
  2. Astramax

    Astramax Super Member

    Never heard of mixing undercoat and eggshell, new one on me, eggshell is a self undercoating formulation anyway. With regard to your hall cupboards, sounds like he picked up the wrong paint pot and painted the cupboards before realizing his mistake and then made a daft excuse to fool you!

    With the new 2010 complient paints eggshells and satinwoods are coming up shiney, Dulux are aware of this and say that the shine will mellow after a few weeks. I have not been back to a job to see if that statement is true.
     
  3. Goodwill

    Goodwill Member

    Hi Noodle,

    Sorry to learn of your concerns regarding your decorator.  Just to get a better understanding of your situation I have a few questions.

    How did you come by this particular decorator and why did you decide to instruct him?

    What exactly was the reason for the agreement that you should supply the paint?

    Who was responsible for the specification, especially regarding the woodwork with what seems like the intention of using a primer on new woodwork plus one undercoat and one finishing coat of eggshell and one undercoat and one finishing coat of eggshell on previously painted woodwork, all of these paints being solvent borne (please correct me if my assumptions are incorrect).  Also the inside of the cupboards in a solvent borne eggshell finish?

    Why did another builder apply a mist coat to the new plasterwork?

    Why did you need to point out that, "The new decorators had sanded down the woodwork and the walls very well so the surfaces were then smooth for painting"?  Was it your intention that these builders were originally there to complete the whole of the painting and decorating work but you were dissatisfied with their work?

    Why did you trust the opinions of the sales assistants in the builders' merchants that you mentioned over those of your decorator?

    Did the sales assistants at the builders' merchants explain to you that Volatile Organic Compounds (VOC) compliant solvent borne undercoat is apt to dry with a shiny finish?

    As you were expressing your concerns regarding incomplete work did your decorator really order you out of your own flat or did he suggest that it was best that you stay away and not proffer criticism until the job is offered to you as being fully finished?

    Thanks
     
  4. Guttercat

    Guttercat New Member

    That's a "class" post Goodwill.
     
  5. NoodleSoup

    NoodleSoup New Member

    thank you for your responce Goodwill. I hope I can answer your questions.

    Q) How did you come by this particular decorator and why did you decide to instruct him?
    A) Someone I work with recommended him as he had done a few things for him. I don't know him that well so can't judge his standard.

    Q) What exactly was the reason for the agreement that you should supply the paint?
    A) I had previously bought the paint and the type had been recommended by previous builders.

    Q) Who  was responsible for the specification, especially regarding the  woodwork with what seems like the intention of using a primer on new  woodwork plus one undercoat and one finishing coat of eggshell and one  undercoat and one finishing coat of eggshell on previously painted  woodwork, all of these paints being solvent borne (please correct me if  my assumptions are incorrect).  Also the inside of the cupboards in a  solvent borne eggshell finish?
    A) I asked him what and how much paint to buy. I had bought some of the paint previously but he didn't want to work with it so I bought the rest.

    Q) Why did another builder apply a mist coat to the new plasterwork?
    A) The previous builders did the plastering. And I asked them to do a mist coat. I wanted to do the painting to save on cost but since then I havn't had time. I didn't ask the previous builders to paint as they had taken 3 months to plaster, install a small kitchen and tile and fit a bathroom while damaging the rest of the property. It is a one bed flat so it's not large. They only worked sundays and evenings so this practice was annoying my neighbours.

    Q) Why did you need to point out that, "The new decorators had sanded down the  woodwork and the walls very well so the surfaces were then smooth for  painting"?  Was it your intention that these builders were originally  there to complete the whole of the painting and decorating work but you  were dissatisfied with their work?
    A) At that stage (if you read my thread) I didn't state that I was dissatisfied with the work, I only complimented them on the smoothness after sanding. I only asked him how come the surface was shiny. However now that they have applied the eggshell coat I have dragged brush strokes, drips, embeded bumps, possible from the roller and painting over glass, and provided no protection for the new radiators.

    Q) Why did you trust the opinions of the sales assistants in the builders'  merchants that you mentioned over those of your decorator?
    A) I didn't trust the opinios of the sales assistant at the builders merchants, it mearly allerted me to investigae this further, which is why I wrote this thread, to get advice.

    Q) Did  the sales assistants at the builders' merchants explain to you that  Volatile Organic Compounds (VOC) compliant solvent borne undercoat is  apt to dry with a shiny finish?
    A) No

    Q) As  you were expressing your concerns regarding incomplete work did your  decorator really order you out of your own flat or did he suggest that  it was best that you stay away and not proffer criticism until the job  is offered to you as being fully finished?
    A) I was asking questions as apposed to raising concerns about the work. I customer is entitied to do so.  The painter was overly dissmissive on me providing a compliment so I was pretty cautious in how I delivered my question. And yes there was a couple of times the comment from him was intended for me to not enter my flat.
     
  6. Goodwill

    Goodwill Member

    Hi Noodle,

    Thank you for your reply and I am offering the following comments all of which may not help you right now but could be useful in the future. 

    1.  Never accept a recommendation unless you are very sure that the person making the referral has the same standards as you and if possible you can view the work of the person who is being recommended.

    2.  It is never a good idea for the client to buy the materials,  The experienced P&D will have a good knowledge of the different paints available and their suitability regarding a given surface or situation, he/she should be allowed to exercise proper control over the job being carried out.

    3.  But who was responsible for the specification:  Woodwork - one of solvent borne undercoat and one of solvent borne eggshell.  Solvent borne eggshell to inside of cupboards?

    4.  So you were unhappy with the original builders and you wanted to do the painting yourself to keep the costs down.  Were these builders also recommended to you and if so was it the same person who recommended the current decorators?"  As your new P&D refused to use the paint you had bought for your own use why did you not let him supply all necessary plant, tools and materials?  It would have been much simpler for you. 

    5.  My apologies for the confusion in this question, I was actually referring to the previous builders when I mentioned "being dissatisfied with their work".  However, you are now also showing further dissatifaction with your current P&D.

    6.  No comment required.

    7.  If your P&D had used this undercoat before he would have known about the prospect of a shiny finish.  I'm afraid that a sales assistant in a builders' merchant is unlikely to know much about paint.

    8.  It is never a good idea for the client to be around operatives when thay are working on your premises, it tends to stir up an uncomfortable feeling of a lack of trust.  It seems to me that you and this man are not in harmony.  When you first meet your P&D to discuss the work and the specification be very aware of whether you are on the same wavelength.  Allow the P&D to ask you questions, to make suggestions and advise you accordingly rather than just issuing instructions.  If you do not get a feeling of empathy then it is probably best not to instruct this person but to seek again.
     

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