Horstmann E30 v Timeguard TGBT4

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by Eye Squared R, Dec 7, 2012.

  1. Eye Squared R

    Eye Squared R Active Member

    I would be grateful if anyone with any experience of these two timers could advise which is the better?  I am looking at fitting a number of these in Cyprus and do not want a pile of re-work or unhappy customers.  I am aware that these units are only single-pole switching and only suitable for 'Functional' switching and NOT Isolation purposes.  The 'Gold Plated' solution would be to precede this unit with a 20A DP Switch, giving both 'Functional' and Isolation capability - but I am happy to put a notice that it is only suitable for 'Functional' switching and work on the 'Load' should be only carried out after 'making-safe' by use of the Consumer Unit's 'Main-Switch'.
     
  2. Lectrician

    Lectrician Screwfix Select

    Fitted several of the Horstmass E30's.  Never had a faulty one.  I would always fit a 20amp switch infront of it.  You could not get away with "a notice" in the UK.
     
  3. Eye Squared R

    Eye Squared R Active Member

    Thanks for your reply.  I would also fit a switch on a first-fit however when you have a single gang box and the users don't want any disturbance to their decoration a one-for-other is a simple solution.  Any electrician worth his salt should be able to make safe properly and in reality many simply switch off at the MCB (single-pole) and work from there.  I would argue that my sign would satisfy BS7671:2008 AL1 in the UK but I agree that I would prefer to precede with a 20A Switch.
     
  4. Eye Squared R

    Eye Squared R Active Member

    Lectrician,

    When I really think about it the 'Regs' are so full of inconsistencies - if I change a socket on a ring I have the option of switching-OFF the MCB (single-pole) which is not acceptable as 'Making-safe' so I am forced to switch-OFF the 'Main Switch' in the Consumer Unit.  When it suits this is OK and some 'suit' decides to add variations to other cases quite arbitarily in my view.  A bit like checking RCD tripping performance but we ignore the 'over-current' performance of MCBs . . . . . .
     
  5. Lokkars Daisy

    Lokkars Daisy New Member

    In a TN-S or TN-CS supply an mcb is suitable for isolation
     
  6. J.P.

    J.P. New Member

    With respect to PME : -  is an MCB always suitable for isolation with respect to motors LD?
     
  7. Lokkars Daisy

    Lokkars Daisy New Member

    Not sure JP, but any motor (apart from extractor fan) will generally have some form of dp switch fitted as a matter of course
     
  8. Lokkars Daisy

    Lokkars Daisy New Member

    Where is Lucy JP?
     
  9. Eye Squared R

    Eye Squared R Active Member

    LD,

    I would be interested to know where in the 'Regs' you think this is deemed OK?  I can think of an instance where the polarity of the supply feed is reveresed and I would have a switched-Neutral and it would be a guranteed failure on the 'Test & Inspection' Rig exam.
     
  10. J.P.

    J.P. New Member

    Cheers LD. I haven't got a clue where Lucy is? Perhaps she is fed up with the forum or something m8.
     
  11. J.P.

    J.P. New Member

    LD - any recommendations for some Christmas Music? - Gaelic origin would be great - have checked  a few on Naxos and Quadriga Consort sounds good, but I need more depth and the music performed by groups/choirs from the roots so to speak..
     
  12. Lokkars Daisy

    Lokkars Daisy New Member

    E S r   I take the regs with a 'pinch of salt' when you are as old and wise as I am , you will too, if you have an ounce of common sense that is'
    Polarity reversed, etc etc etc
    Go look it up yerself ISOLATION   no need to ISOLATE NEUTRAL ***
     
  13. Eye Squared R

    Eye Squared R Active Member

    LD,

    I once did an safety audit on a woodworking premises and one of the operatives was very bullish and thought that safety was a 'Pile of _ _ _ _'.  I thought it was rather telling that he had a missing digit because he had previously over-riden a guard and paid the price.  I always assume connections are 'LIVE' even after Isolation so I never stroke the copper.  I also bend the 'Regs' but hopefully from a point of knowledge and not blind ignorance - common sense is a very vague and dynamic commodity . . . . . .
     
  14. Lokkars Daisy

    Lokkars Daisy New Member

    ESr , you claim that switching off an mcb isn't recognised as a method of isolation, however it is recognised , it's in the regs in black and white.
    I'm not bending any regs.
     
  15. tocarolan

    tocarolan New Member

    give it a try, though... this is the CD I have always been looking for the Christmas season. So emotional and yet not kitsch mainstream.
     
  16. Eye Squared R

    Eye Squared R Active Member

    LD,

    537.2.1.1 "Every circuit shall be capable of being isolated from each of the live supply conductors.  In a TN-S or TN-C-S system, it is not necessary to isolate or switch the neutral conductor where it is regarded as being reliably connected to Earth by a suitably low impedance."

    So for TN-S and TN-C-S I concede

    BUT for TT not so . . . . . . . .

    From a safety point of view it is better to Switch the Main Switch rather than an MCB . . . . . . . " Safety is no Accident
     
  17. Lokkars Daisy

    Lokkars Daisy New Member

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