plastic push fit central heating pipes

Discussion in 'Plumbers' Talk' started by Thermo, Oct 4, 2004.

  1. Thermo

    Thermo New Member

    I need to re-run the xisting old one pipe system in my house and replace it with a flow and return system. This is going to involve scrabbaling about under the floorboards, and whilst i may be a traditionalist i think it will be a damn sight easier to use plastic push fit pipework and fittings than traditional methods. Has anyone any comments on the screwfix pushfit range (product nrs 11027, 12235 etc)
    Whats the difference between the normal pipework and the PE-X pipework, are they both suitable for central heating systems?

    Mny thansk for your help, as any advice i receive now will be a lot more helpful than finding it out whilst under a cramped floor, covered in cobwebs, dust etc!!!!
     
  2. bathstyle

    bathstyle Active Member

    I never use speedfit, always go for Hep20.
    I dont have much confidence using speedfit for some reason- might just be me!
    Did my heating system using hep, took 3 days,need to use barrier pipe and come off boiler in copper for a bit before going to plastic.
    Only trouble with hep is that it's quite expensive.
     
    Adam Routley likes this.
  3. doitall

    doitall New Member

    interesting comments that.

    I will not touch hep2o for love nor money.

    Several reasons but through my activity's on the forums I have been posted a number of photo's where hep has burst or broken down, to date no speedfit.

    Main reason is the letter from hep2o stating that their pipe is not suitable for constant temperature use.
     
  4. bathstyle

    bathstyle Active Member

    Might have to start using speedfit!

    I think the reason I use hep is because all the plumbers I know use it. I feel that speedfit has a bit of a diy label on it.

    I know that push fit plastic has had problems but not exclusively with hep.

    Hep does have a 50 year guarantee.
     
  5. Thermo

    Thermo New Member

    youve obviously used it before in some form. would you be happy using a push fit system in this situation. any tips on using it?
     
  6. bathstyle

    bathstyle Active Member

    I would use plastic for a heating system, up to you which type to go for.
    Make sure you use the correct cutters, always use inserts, also do the runs in plastic but looks a bit neater if you bring copper up through floor to rad valves(fittings will accept copper)
    Best thing to do is get a how to install leaflet from local merchants.
     
  7. nyck

    nyck New Member

    That was my question ,The pipe through the floor to the rad valve leave in plastic or copper.Can you paint the plastic?

    nyck
     
  8. salem2000

    salem2000 New Member

    I like to use Cuprofit Here brass push fittings, they do cost more but give a bit more flexability on the joints and look better. Had a few plastic fittings in past, but had to replace them after a few months.

    Salem.
     
  9. devil's advocate

    devil's advocate New Member

    Chust to add my tuppence worth.

    Both Hep20 and Speedfit are perfectly suitable for central heating systems. They don't fail or cause problems <u>unless a mistake has been made when they've been fitted</u> (eg: damage to 'O' ring - especially when copper pipe has been inserted that hasn't been de-burred, or the pipe hasn't been inserted fully; always note - or mark - the pipe about 15mm outside the joint and then check how far in it has gone).

    (ok, possibly the odd fitting is faulty - as with <u>anything</u> - but, has anyone here come across a problem that was genuinely caused by the pipe or fittings themselves?)

    I have a soft spot for Hep20 'cos it was one of (if not the) first of its type, and I used plenty of it some 20+ years ago for bathroom, kitchen and CH installations (when it was called Bartol Acorn).

    I use Speedfit now, simply because SFD stock it. I've <u>never</u> had any problems with <u>either</u>.

    Cuprofit looks very neat. However, they require a mighty push to fit (do check it's gone in the full amount) and an absolute sod to remove afterwards if you need to!

    So, feel confident in using 'plastic' for your CH and DHW systems - unless you have hungry rodents living under your floor; I've heard that they can make a meal of plastic - and enjoy the shower afterwards...

    Could just be an urban myth tho' - I personally haven't come across this happening.

    I haven't tried painting Speedfit - perhaps it's worth contacting their technical services? I've read that some peeps on here prefer the speedfit 'cos it's white and doesn't need to be painted!
     
  10. Thermo

    Thermo New Member

    so am i right in thinking i need to use the PE-X pipe ie is this the barrier pipe?
     
  11. devil's advocate

    devil's advocate New Member

    PE-X stands for 'cross-linked polyethylene', and the 'barrier' is a separate issue - I understand it prevents 'air' permeating the surface of the pipe (if you look at the end section of the pipe, you can see the barrier layer).

    Bartol 'Acorn' didn't have such a layer (I don't think the Hep20 equivalent does either), but it was made from a different 'plastic'; polybutylene. I assume this polymer doesn't allow gases to permeate it.

    All I know is, both are perfectly suitable for CH and DHW systems.

    Take your pick!

    This is my understanding...
     
  12. I prefer Speedfit, especially now they have modified the fittings so they can be locked onto the pipe and not pulled off accidentally.

    As for radiators, I too send the pipe up through the floor in copper, it just looks more professional, but I tend to use chrome plated for these risers, they match the valve and as I'm doing bathrooms they often tend to match the shinely new chrome ladder racks. Added bonus is they don't need painting.
     
  13. doitall

    doitall New Member

    Have and still do use a very limited amount of plastic pipe.

    would I use it all the time as a replacment for copper? No chance.

    In answer to your question devils advocate, yes i have photo's where the pipe has failed and on different jobs, although I will say i have never had one go on a job I installed.

    Hep warrantee has been reduced to 25 years I think, hep also say the pipe is unsuitable for contant temperature circuits that includes, heating and hot water.
     
  14. Thermo

    Thermo New Member

    marvellous i knew id get a post like this after i placed the order!!!!
     
  15. doitall

    doitall New Member

    Sorry thermo,

    Just be extra carefull and pressure test after install.

    I did give you a hint earlier
     
  16. bathstyle

    bathstyle Active Member

    Doitall,

    Is it possible to see the photos?
     
  17. I use Hep in preference to Speedfit, I ahd a spate of using Speedfit a year or two ago and ended up replacing numerous service valves which leaked around the tap, sinc ethen used Hep, never had a problem.

    One major point against plastic of any sort, is the presence of rodents, they seem to thrive on eating joints, especially on the hot side of systems. I've had 2 clients lose ceilings as a result of rats gnawing multiple holes.
     
  18. devil's advocate

    devil's advocate New Member

    Interesting, doitall, and a bit worrying! Can you tell me what the causes of the failures were?

    Also interesting about the Hep20 disclaimer about constant temp systems; I have to say I've only ever used Hep pipe on vented systems where the operating pressure is much less than combis and, as I said before, have never had a problem. Perhaps the Speedfit pipe is best for combis - I hope so, cos that's precisely what I'm doing at the moment!

    Mudster, a possible word of caution about the use of chromed (or stainless steel) pipe: these are much harder materials than copper and 'plastic'and the gripper ring in the pushfit fittings might not grip properly. I'd strongly recommend using brass compression fitting here.

    Thermo, is it 'Speedfit' you've just ordered? If so, relax!
     
  19. doitall

    doitall New Member

    Doitall,

    Is it possible to see the photos?

    post an email address and I can send you a couple of pics no probs.
     
  20. bathstyle

    bathstyle Active Member

    Doitall,

    bathroomstyle@ntlworld.com

    Cheers
     

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