Can I replace standard doors into a door frame that currently holds a fire door

Discussion in 'Carpenters' Talk' started by HOC, Jan 13, 2019.

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  1. HOC

    HOC New Member

    I live in a one-bed Victorian flat. It has more ugly plain fire doors than it needs per regulations, and for some reason every door in the flat is much larger than a standard internal door, so I need made-to-measure doors.
    I intend to replace a couple of the fire doors with made-to-measure panelled doors which are going to be shallower than the current fire doors.
    Question is - can I just attach them to the current door frame/architrave, even though they are not as deep as the existing fire door?
    Hope that makes sense? I have checked regs and I am OK to make these replacements.
     
  2. Isitreally

    Isitreally Super Member

    If the existing fire doors are wider, why not instead of made to measure doors just fit a frame inside the existing and fit standard doors.
     
    Paulie1412 likes this.
  3. AlvyChippy

    AlvyChippy Active Member

    Depends as if you are subject to FD60 or FD30 specs and regulations

    Just replacing the door- doesn't automatically doesn't mean you are up to specs... depending as how anal inspection would be etc

    Any fire door (FD30 or FD60) with or without intumiscent strips is lipped- you are not allowed to touch neither sides or the top, can cut the bottom, leaving no bigger than 6mm gap under and overall height isn't too small for fire exit door spec. However, FD30 can be fitted and if to fit additional intumiscent strip, can be cut to size.

    These days, just a door- means nothing. Door manufacturers insist on fitting EVERYTHING (actual Door, Frame, door stops, strips, door closers etc using their way (fitters) of doing so) as it is "installed fire door kit" certification issue, hence door manufacturers will have small print- if you fitted the door, without their recommended and documented method-process- warranty isn't valid.

    However, there's load of cutting corners in that respect, including inspection etc, you might get away with just a door or even old frame
     
  4. HOC

    HOC New Member

    Cheers, the doors I want to fit are non fire doors, as I have already been told by fire brigade inspection that two of my thick and ugly fire doors are not required, which is why I am replacing them with more attractive regular doors of standard thickness.
    The issue is whether i can just use the existing frame (see photo) that currently holds a "fire door" (fitted in the early 1990s) to hang a regular non-fire door.
    Cheers for your time.
     

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  5. AlvyChippy

    AlvyChippy Active Member

    no
    If you changing the door, "fire door kit" isn't original and I can see your door stops being standard small cheap ones, that where good in the past, but not any-more... unless you fit intumiscent strips....

    however, if, as you say, particular door is exempt to fire regs- its OK, but I don't see it as realistic issue, as any space with the door in it creates the need for fire escape route or obstruction...

    Just for the looks of it to change fire door in to non fire door and absolutely not up to specs- sorry, isnt clever at all!
    (apologies if it does sounds harsh, but you mentioning Fire Brigade talk- inspection... you are looking for "a tangle to get yourself in to")
     
  6. dwlondon

    dwlondon Active Member

    A typical Victorian internal door is about 35mm thick.

    A fire door is 45mm thick.

    You just need to reset the door stops. Which are the strips of wood the door closes against.
     
    WillyEckerslike likes this.
  7. WillyEckerslike

    WillyEckerslike Screwfix Select

    Yes but as dwlondon says above.

    You will restrict how wide the door can open if you set it into the frame to meet the existing stops. The fulcrum of the hinge sits slightly outside of the frame allowing the door to swing around until it meets the architrave (room design and space allowing of course). If you set the door into the frame, it would only open until it met the frame and then it would transfer the pivot point to the corner of the frame possibly wrenching the hinges out as it continued to swing out. The leverage forces would be huge.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2019
  8. blarblarblarblar

    blarblarblarblar Active Member

    Not sure I’m getting this, move the stops or fit parliament hinges, don’t see much of an issue. Guess I should read all of it...
     
  9. WillyEckerslike

    WillyEckerslike Screwfix Select

    No. You're getting it. I was just trying to explain why you can't set a shallower door into the frame without moving the stops (or fitting parliament hinges).
     
    blarblarblarblar likes this.
  10. AlvyChippy

    AlvyChippy Active Member

    still both ignoring the fact of having fire door to be replaced with non fire door?...:rolleyes:
     
  11. WillyEckerslike

    WillyEckerslike Screwfix Select

    One of us is ignoring the fact that the fire service has given permission for the fire door to be replaced with a standard one - post #4
     
  12. AlvyChippy

    AlvyChippy Active Member

    mKay... I'll be the blond one and believe that to be the case....
     
    WillyEckerslike likes this.
  13. goldenboy

    goldenboy Super Member

    If it doesnt need to be a fire door replace it with whatever you like.

    Move the stops as you need.

    Personally i prefer if possible to replace the stop with a full section to create the look of a casing. Looks a lot better. But you need to adjust archs to do that.
     
  14. njm

    njm Member

    What thickness is the existing door? If its an fd60 its usually 54mm , if its a 30 its 44mm but most standard non fire domestic doors are 34mm. Ideally you want to keep the door flush to the edge of the frame to avoid problems with the lock/latch...e.g.-you will have to move the strike plate back if you sit the door recessed with parliament hinges and will end up with scrape marks across the lining where the latch rubs on its way in) -not a suitable use for parliament hinges anyway-to my knowledge you would have to sink them into the frame also unless you have a 6mm ish gap on the hing side to allow for them...it would be less work/mess/hassle to replace stops or just move existing ones if you can get them off without damage and are willing to repaint frames(presuming you will be painting new doors anyway?)
     

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