At last

Discussion in 'Just Talk' started by dinkydo, Jul 25, 2019.

  1. ajohn

    ajohn Screwfix Select

    The idea behind a federal europe is to produce something that can compete with the usa. It's not a bad idea really as they have rather a lot of influence but people need to realise that international politics thanks to how it currently works largely stinks.

    Most UK exports and many things we buy here that are from the uk are produced from imported materials. Then there are trade deals - tariffs etc plus nationalist feeling in some countries that tend to encourage people to buy domestic products and little else unless they have to. That seems to have been drummed out of the UK years ago but on the other hand our manufacture tended to be on a smaller scale. That makes life tough. For instance a company I used to work for trembled at times because an american giant was thinking about opening a plant here. They would open one big enough to service all of europe. Bit hard to compete with. Fortunately the USA isn't doing so well now so that is a lot less likely to happen but their companies are often big enough to gobble up one of ours such as Cadbury's. They have also burnt their fingers trying to buy up european car manufacturers. Ford made itself the biggest one in the world for a while. Toyota did that all on it's own but Japan is a different place that had different aims to most. Things in some ways aren't rosy their now either.

    Then come the sinking GBP. Ok vote for something which has already made the vast majority of people here poorer. That will probably get worse what ever happens now. Part of the reason for that is traditional. Many things are priced in USD on global markets so if the GBP shifts against it we notice. Merkel wanted to set up a facility for the euro to work like that. From a european point of view it's a pity she didn't but given the might of the USD she may have found it impossible. No government on the planet can control the money market any more. Actually that's what caused us to drop out of the snake prior to adopting the euro so we never did. Blare wanted to join it. Reason for it not happening may well be the exchange rate at the time. German visitors at the time were finding the UK a very expensive place to be. These days we notice that the euro zone countries are more expensive than ours.

    Then people come up with a load of drivel about the EU. :) I give up but will mention one thing. They do the sums for what each country should pay and then work out a rebate on our payment. Reason the agricultural support in other countries that we don't use. Read about it here. Pity it's a bit dated limk

    http://theconversation.com/the-uks-eu-rebate-explained-58019

    John
    -
     
  2. Harry Stottle

    Harry Stottle Screwfix Select

    Whether it's best to leave or stay in is now irrelevant because whilst the MPs are faffing about, the electorate is getting more and more fed up with the whole thing and industry can't plan ahead. Boris Johnson is the person best placed to get us out of the muddle by exiting in October and setting a course for better things.
    Most believe that there will be a temporary difficulty after exiting, but that's miles better than staying in.
     
    koolpc, Heat, longboat and 1 other person like this.
  3. longboat

    longboat Screwfix Select

    If we go there will be trouble.
    And if we stay there will be double.
     
  4. ajohn

    ajohn Screwfix Select

    We used to lead the world with air craft development not all that long ago and several other areas as well. Do you ever wonder why we don't now and that this went well before we joined the EU. Airbus and Concord also put european stuff ahead - could we have done those on our own - no. Concord suffered because it wasn't american and a big slice of the market it was produced for was for people to use to fly there. The last gasp of the UK in the area of aviation was the jump jet. It generally reckoned that it as far as we are concerned in inovations like that. Also Eurofighter - ;) wonder why it's called that.

    John
    -
     
  5. Harry Stottle

    Harry Stottle Screwfix Select

    We used to be world leaders in nuclear power station design and build, but we let that go too.
    Graphene was invented at Manchester University and hopefully the establishment of the National Graphene Institute will ensure that the invention and development will stay in the UK, but already companies in the US have filed four times as many patents relating to Graphene applications than has UK industry.
     
    dinkydo likes this.
  6. btiw2

    btiw2 Screwfix Select

    Graphene is an allotrope, not a proper noun. You wouldn’t capitalise ‘Diamond’.

    I should be grateful that you’ve now learnt how to spell graphene - at least you’re no longer calling it grapheme.

    Graphene was invented by two immigrants. Geim coming to the U.K. via EU citizenship. Novoselov has since left the U.K., warning of more brain drain because of Brexit.

    About a third of the funding for the National Graphene Institute came from the EU.

    The EU is spending roughly twenty times more on graphene research than the U.K. Money and access to these projects will be restricted after Brexit.

    Geim has described Brexiteers as “not very smart animals”, blames their vote on “a decline in rational thinking”, and Brexit will “prevent international collaborations that drive innovation and discovery”.

    But I didn’t bring up graphene. You did.
    I have no idea why you would have chosen graphene as your example, when everything about it invalidates your argument.

    So who are we to believe on the subject of science? A senile internet poster who can’t spell graphene and doesn’t know where carbon dioxide comes from, or the Nobel laureate physicist who discovered a world changing allotrope?

    The sad thing is that are areas of science which might benefit from Brexit (not many, but there are some). Why didn’t you pick one of those?

    Some may have “had enough of experts”, but that doesn’t mean there’s an appetite for your senile ramblings on subjects that you clearly know nothing about.
     
  7. dinkydo

    dinkydo Screwfix Select

    Well Harry there you have it, for posting perfectly factual comments you have been well and truly admonished, your grammar has also been called into question, I sincerely hope that you now remember that graphene is an allotrope and it is not a proper noun and should not have a capital letter, someone is also pleased that you can now spell it correctly,

    I see that you have been called senile twice in one posting, the dictionary describes senile as “ a person showing the weakness or disease of old age” so I guess this particular remainer is making an assumption on your age and mental state, not really in keeping with his self opinionated reporting of facts, I don’t think you would be criticised for reaching for the report button but like myself I don’t believe this is your style, unfortunately though personal insults are the style of remainers who have failed to accept a democratic vote, two notable ones now no longer post on this forum and it is the better for it.
     
  8. Harry Stottle

    Harry Stottle Screwfix Select

    Absolutely dinks. This btiw2 person has fallen into the same trap as DA and Chips, if they know very little about a subject under discussion, they revert to being rude. If this one's no 2, who's no1? Just how many of these btiw characters are roaming free?
    You're right, I'm not going to report it, it just feeds oxygen to the ignorant.
     
    koolpc and btiw2 like this.
  9. gas monkey

    gas monkey Well-Known Member

    glad I didnt say a thing wiv my speliing
     
    b4xtr, metrokitchens and btiw2 like this.
  10. btiw2

    btiw2 Screwfix Select

    It’s not whether _I_ know anything about these fields. I can read the works of people who do though - something I’d suggest that you try.

    Let me remind you that graphene and the NGI was YOUR choice, before I quote the president of Manchester University (who has responsibility for the NGI).

    “Leaving the EU without a deal would be a serious setback for these fields” (fields included graphene and proton beams).

    Similarly, it wasn’t me who said you’re a “stupid animal” - that was Sir Andre Geim (discoverer of graphene).

    Why did you choose graphene? You made it too easy for me.

    I do think you’re senile though - so report away. That’s a fair cop.
     
  11. koolpc

    koolpc Super Member

    Speling? I cantt spel that wel.
     
  12. koolpc

    koolpc Super Member

    We need to get out of the EU asap. Its a pile of dog poo. Its a leech. Its strangling the UK.
     
    gadget man likes this.
  13. gas monkey

    gas monkey Well-Known Member

    i was senile but i got better ive now got ann summers it comes from wearing frocks or is that al simers opps speeling agoaim
     
  14. Heat

    Heat Screwfix Select

    We did alright before we voted to join the EU.
    (Sorry, - should have said - .....before we voted to be in the common market, to be later pushed into a bigger con called the EU).
    If some immigrants decide they want to leave the U.K. stating the excuse it is because of Brexit, let them leave.
     
  15. longboat

    longboat Screwfix Select

    "Would be a serious setback for these fields"?
    When the UK leaves the EU, it might be a serious setback for one chanel of revenue funding that at the moment is open.
    Research 'will' continue (globally) at even greater rates than before but she and her team may have to look elsewhere for funds.
    Dame Nancy certainly knows which side her bread is buttered.

    Andre Geim, -in his wisdom- also said that the motivation for fellow Nobel prize winner, Konstantin Novoselov's move to Singapore was due to the result of the, EU referendum.
    Singapore, a state that is not, never has been and never will be a member of the European Union.
    I wonder what he real motivations were?
     
  16. Harry Stottle

    Harry Stottle Screwfix Select

    Now listen here Mr or Ms btiw2, you do yourself no favours by resorting to rudeness, it may be your currency in discussions but it carries no weight and just makes you sound silly.
     
  17. Broon

    Broon Active Member

    Harry with all due respect BTIW2 is pretty intellectual and won't often get numbers wrong (I believe they are an accountant if my memory isn't failing me)

    I can't believe though that the remain/leave argument still exist on here. Most of the remainers are either banned for life or buggered off. Which is a shame cause some of them were quite helpful.

    I do have to ask what people think the difference of Boris being in charge will be?

    He can't just make us leave that's down to parliament, He cant just get a better deal that's up to the EU.

    The only difference I can see is that Borris supported leave which for all we know he doesn't actually believe in but did it as a way to gain momentum to become PM.

    So what difference will Borris make?
     
  18. btiw2

    btiw2 Screwfix Select

    That's very kind, but can't I be intellectual AND silly?
    I don't mind "silly". I quite like silly.
    It's better than scientifically illiterate: volcanoes are responsible for most of CO2 - I'm still chuckling about that one. Oh, oh, Milankovitch cycles having an effect less than kiloyears! Stop! It's too funny.

    Daft innit? In a parallel universe we'd all have come to terms with T. May's compromise.
    Nobody would be happy, but nobody would be too unhappy either.

    This is now a religious war. Compromise is heresy.
    And like all religions, facts are not permitted if they don't match doctrine.

    Me? I just want normal back. I wouldn't have poked my unwelcome head back up if Harry hadn't mentioned science.

    You don't like the term "senile" Harry? Fine. Prove me wrong. Do some research and make a fact based post.

    Because let's look at your strategy for ensuring the UK is at the forefront of graphene research:
    Let's ignore the fact that a significant amount of the funding for the NGI came from the EU and the person responsible called leaving without a deal a "serious setback", what's your plan?

    Let's look at your plan.
    "Hopefully"
    That's all you have?
    Hope?
    Hope isn't a plan.

    Researchers are already leaving the UK and immigration of new researchers is falling.
    The person who discovered the material you're posting about thinks you're a fanatic and no deal will destroy UK science[1].
    I don't know about "destroying" UK science (although who am I to contradict such an eminent scientist?) - but it's not good.

    But not to worry. Harry has "hope".

    -----
    [1]Some more quotes about "No Dealers" from Sir Geim (discoverer of graphene) from New Scientist yesterday:
    • "Fanatics"
    • "Backward-looking Brexiteer Mogglodytes" (I wish I'd thought of "Mogglodytes").

    You'll find it. It's in the article entitled: "No-deal Brexit would destroy UK science"

    Don't blame me Harry. You bought graphene into the conversation.
    Or is the Nobel laureate who discovered the wonder material you "hope" will flourish "silly" too.
     
  19. Harry Stottle

    Harry Stottle Screwfix Select

    Broon, It's possible that btiw2 is intellectual in his or her field and I've never questioned that. What I'm trying to tell him/her is that if he/she wants to persuade people to agree with his/her ideas, it's not done by being rude or nit picking about the odd typo. If he/she will take note his/her credibility will improve, but he/she just churns out long disconnected ramblings and insults.

    I agree about the remain/leave arguments, the whole topic has run its course.

    Whether you like him or not, I would have thought that the differences between Boris in charge and one of the rest in charge would be pretty clear.

    I can't be sure what Boris thinks about remain or leave, but I do believe that he really does want to leave. What is certain is that he is doing what the electorate's majority want, against a majority of MPs who want to remain. If he can't find a way and the remainer MPs manage to scupper Brexit, the electorate will be outraged and remain loving MPs will be in grave danger of losing their seats.
     
  20. Broon

    Broon Active Member

    I doubt very much that we will stay although I have the same amount of doubt that we will leave no deal. No matter which way you go it is almost political suicide as the country remains very split almost down the middle.

    To be honest the whole way brexit has been handled from the beginning was poor this dates right back to the start of debates and even how the question was asked leave/stay no actual option of what you want.

    I don't think Borris will make any difference in terms of the deal. So I can see this being a never ending cycle. Its like a TV show that has overstayed its welcome and keeps just reusing material (at least it will be environmentally friendly if they are reusing it) I am at the stage that although I voted remain and still think its a better option I just want them to either take the deal or leave this whole tip toeing around it is doing nothing.

    On the case of BTIW2 I get where you are coming from but everyone throws insults on this place. I bet you have even done it.
    Yes insulting someone isn't the way to get your point across but from my perspective I don't think he wanted you to see his side. He was just correcting/insulting you. I may have miss read it tho.
     

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