Engineered flooring gaps

Discussion in 'Carpenters' Talk' started by Maria M, Mar 13, 2021.

  1. Maria M

    Maria M Member

    We had carpets replaced with engineered floors (tongue and groove floating) in 3 bedrooms around 3 months ago (Dec 2020). Floor boards were on site for at least 2 weeks before they were installed. Almost immediately after installation, small gaps started appearing where the short ends of the boards meet in several places and they have expanded over the last 3 months. They range from 1mm to 6 mm in most rows. There are also small gaps between long ends of the boards in some areas. I am not sure why this happened, but I suspect they didn’t use enough glue. We’ve complained to the builder and they said they have sent a bee team in to remediate it, however they won’t be taking the floors and skirting up, just gluing and filing the gaps. Is this an acceptable way to fix the problem? Or do we demand they lift and redo all floors? I want to be reasonable and also reduce disruption to our family, but also ensure we get a good result.


    4C91ED39-B59F-4E45-8576-B38B79A127D8.jpeg 2AF130CF-39AE-4D23-8AF7-9BA7FB050C33.jpeg 9A56819E-533A-45AC-BD97-68C96844EB1B.jpeg EF82ECC0-3A7B-4BC6-8A06-AB1D1D3D355F.jpeg






    We had carpets replaced with engineered floors (tongue and groove floating) in 3 bedrooms around 3 months ago (Dec 2020). Floor boards were on site for at least 2 weeks before they were installed. Almost immediately after installation, small gaps started appearing where the short ends of the boards meet in several places
     
  2. ramseyman

    ramseyman Screwfix Select

    The only way to rectify this without taking the floor up is to remove the skirting, squeeze glue into the open joints and lever the gaps shut from the wall using something like a jemmy. Depending how much, or if any, glue was used on the tongue and groove and I expect very little, they will move enough to close the gaps. Unfortunately engineered and solid wood flooring always seems to shrink in the length after laying even if it has been previously acclimatised to the room before laying.
     
  3. Maria M

    Maria M Member

    we are able to kick the floor boards into place under skirting with just our feet, so they do slide around. We had the same problem downstairs but worse, the boards were separating and gaps were appearing on all sides, so they relaid the floors again. Upstairs things are not as bad, but I am very sceptical about not taking any skirting boards or floor boards up.
     
  4. Maria M

    Maria M Member

    Just so that I understand the method, why would the skirting need to be lifted? Wouldn’t they be able to access the gaps with skirting in place just by moving the boards with a rubber mallot or taped block?
     
  5. GrahamTaylor

    GrahamTaylor Active Member

    Taking off the skirting would allow them to put in strap clamps across the width / length of the floor. This would hold everything together whilst the glue does its stuff.
     
  6. Red Star Boats

    Red Star Boats Active Member

    It’s unusual in my experience for boards to move longitudinally due to shrinkage caused my changes in relative humidity, to any generally perceptible degree. Movement across the grain is much greater although mitigated to a degree in engineered floors by the method of construction. The idea behind floating floors is that all the pieces should be glued together along all four edges and should then behave as if just one large piece, as in it will still move but the changes in dimensions will show at the outer edges, hence the need to leave an expansion gap around the perimeter of the floor. I think the end gaps in your case are due to insufficient or incomplete adhesion of the composite parts allowing the individual parts to shift under load. I think the boards are moving when you walk on them not shrinking.
    I would need to see more details before offering an opinion on the he quality of the fitting.
    Do you know anything of the provenance of the floor, like most things there is a huge difference in quality between the best and the worst.
     
  7. Jiml86

    Jiml86 Screwfix Select

    With the finish on the skirting it wouldn’t be a bad thing lifting it. Like other posters have said not enough glue. What’s the subfloor like? If it’s got any movement in it and people are walking on the floor along with lack of proper adhesion the boards will open like that unfortunately.

    You could try and squeeze glue into the gaps, close them with suction cups or whatever and tape across/ put something heavy on the boards to allow the glue set up and hope for the best.

    However at best that’s a bodge and I wouldn’t be surprised if over time other boards moved aswell. If it were my house I’d be taking everything up and re laying properly.
     
  8. Maria M

    Maria M Member

    the floors were bought at a reputable shop in London, who have been in business for 30 years or so. They cost around £45 a square meter...

    Unfortunately we got very unlucky with the original subcontractor that our builder sent to refurbish our home - in reality ruined everything, so we are redoing. It’s been a painful experience over the course of the last 5 months, so we are at the end of our ability to live at a constitution site. Hence the hesitance to lift the floors. In my opinion it’s terrible and you shouldn’t see the skirting job misaligned edges that are not mitred, gaps everywhere filled with caulk that separated, poor painting...anyway , I digress.
     
  9. Red Star Boats

    Red Star Boats Active Member

    You have my sympathy, you’ve been told what you can do to improve things but the only way in my opinion to do it properly is to lift it and start again.
     
  10. Maria M

    Maria M Member

    Here is the picture of the subfloor, not sure what it is, maybe ply? Or some kind of underlay over wooden subfloor boards...I’m not entirely sure. The gaps are clearly worse in the areas with more traffic.
     

    Attached Files:

  11. Maria M

    Maria M Member

    Whats your view on reusing the same boards? or would we have to get new? keeping in mind that they have already been lifted entirely once after the builder laid it with h joints.
     
  12. Red Star Boats

    Red Star Boats Active Member

    It’s hard to say without seeing them, the main issues will be the condition of the tongues and grooves and also glue contamination, it is hard enough to get a good bond between the boards because they have been pre-lacquered, normally when glueing wood you want a clean wood to wood contact surface, in this instance you also have glue contamination to contend with and this makes things more tricky. Where the boards definitely glued together?
    I would lift the boards, if they come up cleanly with minimal damage you could scrape the tongues clean with a carbide scraper, the grooves will require a little more care with a combination of fine chisel and sandpaper.
    Re-install using sufficient adhesive and plenty of band clamps until adhesive has cured or alternatively use an adhesive pad underlay.
     
  13. Jiml86

    Jiml86 Screwfix Select

    Hmmm, can you feel movement underfoot? Or does it squeak bad? Are you sure they used glue? Given the builders other work I wouldn’t be a bit surprised.
     
  14. Shytot

    Shytot Active Member

    Maria , what did the flooring manufacturer recommend for fixing the flooring? And did the flooring contractor adher to the recommendations ? Looks quality flooring you’ve got and shouldn’t shrink that much
     
  15. Maria M

    Maria M Member

    Don't think the floor boards came with any instructions, but if they did, I'm sure they were ignored. I knkiw they did use the underlay that we bought from the manufacturer. Wood was acclimatized for over 2 weeks, but it was cold in the house - not heat due to other works going on. It's definitely a problem with the installation and lack of or very little glue. I also know that they laid them once, skirting and all, and then lifted and relaid the next day. Don't think they sanded the glue if they used it the first time, also I'm sure floors were walked on right away before the glue set. Anyway, I know there is a fault with installation, that's why we're getting the new team from the same builder company to fix this, but I'm concerned that they are proposing to do this without lifting the floors, just gluing the short ends of the boards where there are gaps. That's why I'm asking for some opinions on this.
     
  16. Maria M

    Maria M Member

    In some areas the floors flex, but in other areas it's solid. We know the work is bad, just trying to understand if the solution to fix is valid or if it's another bodge and the gaps will reappear in a couple of months/years
     
  17. Jiml86

    Jiml86 Screwfix Select

    I’d say it’s a bodge, if they were all laid the same, I imagine they will fix those boards but you’ll see gaps appear in others over time
     
  18. GrahamTaylor

    GrahamTaylor Active Member

    Based on the pictures I don't think that the original layers used any adhesive at all. The floor itself looks to be nice quality so should be possible to label the pieces, remove skirtings (sounds as though they need replacing anyway), lift the floor, cleaning up any glue on the tongues and grooves, relay it in original configuration but with proper adhesive (or use a mat type mentioned above by someone), replace skirting. Final step would be to get the contractor to pay your costs. If he used a bad subcontractor that is his problem.
     
  19. Maria M

    Maria M Member

    Thank you. As much as I'm dreading the disruption this will cause, I m coming to realization that this is the proper way to rectify this. I'm getting push back from the builder, they claim they can fix it without lifting the skirting boards and floors. They say they can also fix the skirting boards without taking them off. The original skirting boards laid 3 motnths ago has cracks along butt joints, mitered at internal corners, not scribed, gaps under floors, misaligned skirting boards, poor painting. I suggested that skirting should be scribed to floors and scribed on internal edges and got a very firm "no". They can't do it as they claim it's never done this way and it takes too long.
     
  20. Maria M

    Maria M Member

    1756C01C-8FFA-43CC-BEAF-B86CE86DDD49.jpeg Skirting example. The new team are saying they can fix by cutting out the cracked joints and replacing with a small piece of skirting mitred...sounds dodgy! 604B46FB-3E2E-4A0B-A1AF-AA0413FC2A45.jpeg
     

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