Load bearing wall ?

Discussion in 'Builders' Talk' started by Solver, Sep 5, 2021.

  1. Solver

    Solver New Member

    Hi,

    I am looking to remove a wall for which I've got BC approval and SE calculations. The engineer never came to the house to check the wall, he just assumed that it's a load bearing one. The joist run perpendicular onto the wall but they aren't resting on the wall at all. It's a block wall and the top section is made of bricks I have no idea why. Also the wall doesn't continue upstairs.

    If I was to remove the wall right now nothing will change in the current structure as the joists have 5mm+ gap between them and the wall. I want to do it properly and if a beam is required I'd install one but if it's not a load bearing wall in that case the cost is unnecessary. I had a builder the other day and he said it's not a load bearing one so I've got no idea what to think. Also not sure if it was put there just in case as the joists span is quite long.

    Let me know what do you think, thanks!

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  2. mitefix

    mitefix Active Member

    If the wall is removed and as you say the joist are not supported on the wall.

    Are the joist the right dimension to run the span once the wall has been removed.

    May need a RSJ under the joist
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2021
    Solver likes this.
  3. Solver

    Solver New Member

    Thanks for the reply, I did measure them and some of them are and some of them aren't. There is a timber beam installed as shown on the last image and those joists are the correct span, but the other ones I don't think they are. They span for 5+meters.
     
  4. Severntrent

    Severntrent Screwfix Select

    Size of joist, span and spacing?
     
    Solver likes this.
  5. Solver

    Solver New Member

    Thanks for the reply Severntrent, they are on the image. There is one which is 200x75mm and the others are 195x55mm with 400mm spacing. Some of the joists run for 4+ meters and some of them for 5+meters, I think.
     
  6. Severntrent

    Severntrent Screwfix Select

    Not use to detailed pictures
     
  7. mitefix

    mitefix Active Member

    5m span @400c 8x3/9x3 that's need.

    That's presuming the existing joist are sat on the wall 100mm
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2021
  8. Solver

    Solver New Member

    Wondering why that wall is not supporting them at all. Is that normal?
     
  9. mitefix

    mitefix Active Member


    Probably shrinkage in the timber.
     
  10. Severntrent

    Severntrent Screwfix Select

    195 x 55 can span 4 to 4.2 m depending on class of timber.200 x 75, 4.7 to 4.8, what has SE actually suggested
     
  11. Solver

    Solver New Member

    He has suggested a PFC beam (no idea why PFC) 150x75. He hasn't specified any padstones for it. Alternatively 3 timbers bolted together but if needed I would go with the steel beam. (Image attached)
    Screenshot 2021-09-05 at 21.54.43.png
     
  12. Severntrent

    Severntrent Screwfix Select

  13. Solver

    Solver New Member

    Yes, I don't really know why.
     
  14. Severntrent

    Severntrent Screwfix Select

    Running calcs on the "actual" timber sizes and assuming its C16 timber, the 200 x75 is OK to span 5m to give an allowable maximum deflection of14mm, strength wise it utilises 65% of its allowable capacity. The 195 x 50 is OK to spam 4.4m to give an allowable maximum deflection of 13mm and utilises 85% of its strength capacity.

    Assuming C24 timber, then 195 x 50 could span 4.7m with an allowable max deflection of 13mm and the 200 x 75 could span 5.3 with an allowable max deflection of 14mm

    So your spans may just be on the cusp of what is allowed and your SE has played it safe by having a central support which should limit the deflection to about half of what it would be. Based on the foregoing you could always ask him for clarification
     
    Solver likes this.
  15. stevie22

    stevie22 Screwfix Select

    PFC is parallel flange channel (ie "C" section).

    It's not an ideal for a single beam as it will tend to twist under load: you'd usually use them paired back to back. A better section for this would be UB, UC or RHS.

    It certainly looks as though there was load transfer and I suspect that at best you'll have floor bounce if you don't put in the steel.
     
    Solver likes this.
  16. Solver

    Solver New Member

    Thank you all for the replies! I will have a chat with him and ask him. I am a bit concerned as well regarding the PFC. As I have exposed the joists it would be just the matter of buying the steel and fitting it so I might even do it myself and save some money as builders want 4k+ for this. Obviously will pack it will steel plates and fireproof it.
     

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