EICR Certificate

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by Lesco, Sep 9, 2021.

  1. Coloumb

    Coloumb Screwfix Select

    fair points
     
  2. Lesco

    Lesco New Member

    By pressing the test button. Which didn’t turn all the electrics off.
     
  3. adgjl

    adgjl Screwfix Select

    Unfortunately, all that proves is that the test button doesn’t work!
     
  4. rogerk101

    rogerk101 Screwfix Select

    A half decent spark would have a test tool that is capable of the real tests required to test an RCD.
     
  5. jonathanc

    jonathanc Guest

    Have you tried the test button yourself?
     
  6. Lesco

    Lesco New Member

    This is a fair point
     
  7. Lesco

    Lesco New Member

    Yep. Doesn’t work.
    Do you think just the RCD could be replaced, rather than the whole CU?
     
  8. Coloumb

    Coloumb Screwfix Select

    What the spark should have done is check the RCD with his kit. It might be that the button is faulty and not the RCD. Anyway, imo front loading a cu with a single RCD is a bodge and it should not have been done like that in the first place. 450 sounds like a good price (but get another quote or two to be sure) for a cu replacement but you need to check the following.

    1. Split load or fully RCBO - fully RCBO is better but split load is ok. If he suggests replacing like for like as it currently is this will not comply with the regs.
    2. A thorough EICR is carried out prior to the work being done to identify any further defects needing work before the cu is replaced. Extra work, depending on the extent of it, will further add to the costs.

    What ever you do you need to get it asap as the RCD is not in a good space so as no one is sure if its working you are without a critical safety feature of your electrical installation. Since you are aware if you get an electric shock and die from it then more fool you, but what about every body else in the house?
     
  9. Bazza-spark

    Bazza-spark Screwfix Select

    First thing is to physically switch it off and back on again, then try the test button, it may just be stuck.

    If that fails then the earth fault loop needs to be measured to find out how bad (or good) the earth actually is (needs a pro with the correct testgear), that will tell you how unsafe the installation is. He should have done all this before leaving.
     
  10. Bazza-spark

    Bazza-spark Screwfix Select

    Got me while I was typing lol.
     
    Coloumb likes this.
  11. candoabitofmoststuff

    candoabitofmoststuff Screwfix Select

    It's now a legal requirement for all tenanted properties to have a satisfactory EICR every 5 years. This is paid for by the landlord, not the tenant, as is any remedial work needed.
    The way your posts are reading it seems to me that you are suggesting that you are expecting to pay for this??

    Maybe I've the wrong end of the stick??

    Cando
     
  12. Tony Goddard

    Tony Goddard Screwfix Select

    From what I can see you only have an RCD on one circuit?, the board itself, which is a 30+ year old Wylex has a main switch at 100A and the RCD below is rated 45A, my guess is its on a shower and nothing else is RCD protected anyway.

    The comments Coulomb makes above are spot on, it is I'm afraid time for a new board, however there will almost certainly be a few other faults on the installation given its over 30 yers old, so an upfront EICR is needed, its the sort of job I'd book in for a day, get there early, start testing and stripping out, then get the new board in and get going on any defects.

    As you only have a few circuits I would go for main switch and RCBO's, very marginally more expensive, but a much better job.
     
  13. Bazza-spark

    Bazza-spark Screwfix Select

    @Tony Goddard well spotted. I can just make out that it is only 45A now you mention it, the picture isn't very clear on my device.
     
  14. FlyByNight

    FlyByNight Screwfix Select

    I read it as though the OP owns the property which is leasehold. Just the council is te Freeholder and maybe trying to protect all tenants in a block.
     
  15. MGW

    MGW Screwfix Select

    As @Tony Goddard said first before changing a CU one should do an EICR to work out what faults will be highlighted during or after the change, last thing an electrician or home owner wants is a new CU which can't be switched on due to other faults.

    Can't see picture very well, but I have found a few three phase RCD's used on single phase supplies where the test button will not work, the installer has simply selected the wrong pair of contacts, but the RCD tester showed no fault.

    When replacing a distribution unit (consumer unit is a type tested distribution unit) one should measure the earth leakage on each circuit, and from that decide if circuits can be grouped, or is all RCBO is required, or just fit all RCBO but regulations clearly says the installation must be split into circuits to avoid losing something like lights due to RCD tripping, unless measured the electrician does not know if the back ground earth leakage is over or under 9 mA which is considered the limit with 30 mA RCD.

    There is nothing to say the home needs RCD protection. The BS 7671 is not retrospective, so unless something has been done to change the orignal installation, I.e. bonding removed in bathroom, then it still does not need it, personally I would fit them, but your not forced to fit them.

    There is a problem with an EICR, it is the opinion of the tester, there is no strict rule to say what is a C2 and what is a C3, so a tester could decide he is not coding anything as C2, and you could not say he was wrong, also you could say not coding anything as C3 and also not wrong, all 230 volt is protentialy dangerous, most use the electricial safety council best practice guide but nothing says the inspector must follow that guide.

    This is why the person commissioning an EICR should agree with the inspector what he wants, where the LABC use an EICR instead of an installation certificate they commission the inspector even if the owner pays, as they lay down what the limits are, in that case tested as if new install.

    As it stands I can agree with client only code 1 and 3 are used, it brakes no rules, personally I feed code 4 should have never been removed, code 4 was would not comply with BS 7671 if designed today, but it was removed as it was said it was confusing, so Code C1 is dangerous, and codes C2 and C3 were designed to help the owner select which jobs to do first, but the landlord law in England has resulted in C2 is fail and C3 pass, that was not what the code system was designed to do.

    Some faults like missing RCD result in it being expensive to expand on the system, so owner needs to know what would not be allowed if designed today. But there is no point giving a C2 where under old coding it would be code 4.

    The idea is to help owner deside what needs doing, so C2 414,x,xx or any other regulation number is unhelpful so should not be used, saying either bathroom bonding needs reinstating or a RCD needs fitting, tells the owner what needs doing, that is how it should be written.

    Spur from Spur same, unhelpful, but add to that washing machine supply is a spur off a spur does help. Owner and anyone repairing the fault will know where to look.

    Under new landlord law there is no need for an EICR to be done again once repairs are completed, the minor works or installation certificate is enough, so clearly the description in the EICR must match that on minor works, so it must be described so some one in a council offices can see the two documents refer to same item, so the EICR needs to identify fault in a way that it can be seen the two documents refer to same item.

    To my mind reading what you say, the council should be selecting the inspector, you may need to pay council, but unless they instruct the inspector the document is worthless.
     
  16. Lesco

    Lesco New Member

    Thank you all for your points, I really appreciate your expertise.

    Tony, as per your point, I’ve noticed the RCD is only for my electric oven. The test button does not work but the on off does work and runs my oven on and off.

    So looks like only oven is RCD and nothing else in the flat.
     

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