Industrial Sparks vs domestic sparks

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by bright_Spark, Jan 10, 2023.

  1. bright_Spark

    bright_Spark Screwfix Select

    This post isnt a blow my own trumpet. It is sbout the electrical industry in general and how it is today. As an Industrial spark I just do my job and use skills learned and practiced over the years. Some jobs can be simple and some can be technically challenging.
    As a domestic spark the job in general is easier as there isnt really the complex tasks to have to worry about. However what seems to be the difference nowadays is the regulations and rules that a domestic sparks has to deal with is mind blowing. It seems that you have to be an expert in reading a regs book and on site guide to do your job. Even then after all of this you cannot find two sparks to agree with each other on how you should do a job. Industrial wise we do not take out a regs book or read an on site guide, we just do the job and know how to do it. Why has it turned this way and would you agree if you are a domestic spark that it is becoming a farce and making your life harder? Honest answers and real sparks to answer please. This could be interesting.
     
    Kingscurate likes this.
  2. Tony Goddard

    Tony Goddard Screwfix Select

    I do a mix of domestic and commercial, regulations arn't as much of a thing day to day as you might imagine, like everything, once you know the rules, you just play by them - they change, you update, and for a while the OSG is out every few minutes, until it goes to a shelf to die until the next one comes along.

    Part P in England isn't really an issue, notification is automated by scheme membership, so that all just flows on.

    Bear in mind that whilst there are changes every new regs book and new devices to learn about, the bulk of wiring practice hasn't changed much since the 1960's, and nor have most of the fittings.
     
  3. bright_Spark

    bright_Spark Screwfix Select

    exactly as I thought Tony. Things havent changed that much so surely is there any real need for on site guides and god knows whatever other publications are out there aimed at domestic sparks.
     
  4. Bazza-spark

    Bazza-spark Screwfix Select

    I haven't touched domestic for years. I was QS with the NICEIC in 1 role for a while, and to have to have an annual assessment with them was a nightmare. The half day in the office wasn't too bad, but the on site visits were a real pita. As we didn't do many jobs that fell within the remit, I had 1 on site assessment in Carlisle in the middle of winter, and the other 2 were 1 in Kent and 1 in West Sussex. Took 3 days to cover them, just to keep our Part P notification option open. In industrial there was non of that rubbish, we just got on with it and had a laugh while doing it.

    Glad I'm flippin retired!
     
    bright_Spark likes this.
  5. bright_Spark

    bright_Spark Screwfix Select

    Well my view entirely. It is either all of these governing rules are brought out for monetry purposes or has the government somehow got its claws in the domestic field turning it into a fiasco.
     
  6. Bazza-spark

    Bazza-spark Screwfix Select

    in Wales Part P still ecists in it's original format, it was never relaxed in 2010 like in England, so all the outdoor work, kitchens etc are still notifiable here. I could do anything in the factory, but can't fit an outside light at home.

    It was all nonsense to try and stop DIY work, but all it has done is lined the pockets of the scam providers and stopped the responsible non-registered sparks working.
     
    bright_Spark likes this.
  7. Comlec

    Comlec Screwfix Select

    When the smart grid, multiple power sources, variable tariff, ESS, IoT appliances and shared community installations become common place in residential property then we will all be ‘industrial sparks’
    The days of the house basher are numbered. I am afraid a few C&Gs, an AM2 and an MFT will just not cut it.

    I am so glad I am retired too.

    ps I am working my way through Victron courses at the moment. You actually have to have understanding and real knowledge to design off grid installations.
     
    WH55, Bazza-spark and bright_Spark like this.
  8. bright_Spark

    bright_Spark Screwfix Select

    So would you say that perhaps Part P is not necessary? I have to be honest here, I wouldnt let anyone rewire my house other than myself, yet in the eyes of the law I probably am not qualified to do it.
     
  9. bright_Spark

    bright_Spark Screwfix Select

    Rather an interesting slant on things. Although I would say more commercial than Industrial but I get your point.
     
    Comlec likes this.
  10. Bazza-spark

    Bazza-spark Screwfix Select

    IMHO it failed to achieve it's goals. Just a massive expense for domestic sparks.
     
    bright_Spark likes this.
  11. bright_Spark

    bright_Spark Screwfix Select

    I am not a believer in these odd qualifications now to say you are an electrician, in my day when I served my time I worked in a hospital, oddly enough it was a mental hospital, anyway we became electricians by doing all of the usual C&G and college day release. We were classed as electricians regardless of what you worked in, domestic, commercial or Industrial. We were all the same. Things have changed drastically now as to who is what?
     
  12. Comlec

    Comlec Screwfix Select

    As we have discussed many times before. The issue with Part-P and Competent Persons Schemes - it is the firm that is registered not the operatives (although Napit register operatives).
    Also significant mistakes were made that allowed ‘seven week wonder’ registrations.

    but hey ho we are were we are. The public are still confused, the cowboys with badges still operate and rest of us are left to pick up the mess.
     
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  13. bright_Spark

    bright_Spark Screwfix Select

    Oh I fully agree with you mate, the idea that cowboys do not exist in the trade through these regs has failed immediately. My personal opinion of NICEIC and NAPIT etc is a money making scheme rather than a registration scheme. At one time it was the ECA that was the be all and end all and they only allowed the very best in.
     
  14. Bazza-spark

    Bazza-spark Screwfix Select

    Very much so.

    I served my time with NORWEB. We spent the first 12 months in a training centre and tech college, all bar about 8 weeks during which time to took your annual leave and got a little time with the regular sparks.

    Years 2 and 3 were 12 weeks in the training centre and 12 in the tech college. The rest was on the job training with the pro's.

    Year 4 was 2 weeks in the training centre, and 12 in tech college. All exams were done during tech college

    At the end of that you had City and Guilds A, B and C as they were then.

    I can't fault the training as it has stood me in good stead over the years, SWA, conduit bemding with a former and with a block, pyro, T&E, a bit of metalworking (make a G clamp, make a set of footprint grips, make a plumb bob) so you got time in a machine shop on the lathe, etc.

    Would hate to be starting out now. My neighbours grandson was starting, so I tried to take him on a couple of small jobs. Wouldn't put his bloody phone down, but would have made a good spark as he hadn't a clue how to pick up a brush, let alone use it.

    Found it too stressfull and is now working an an EE call centre. :rolleyes::(
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2023
    Kingscurate, WH55 and bright_Spark like this.
  15. Bazza-spark

    Bazza-spark Screwfix Select

    Yes.

    When I left that job the company didn't have a spark on the payroll, yet they kept their membership for 6 months until they found another spark, I lost the ability to notify the day I walked out.

    Nonsense scheme.
     
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  16. bright_Spark

    bright_Spark Screwfix Select

    shame about the lad, lets hope he doesnt pick that brush up one day. Last factory I worked in we had a young apprentice, he wasnt interested in the least. Worst thing was he jacked it in after two years and he was just starting to get handy to have around. I dont think a trade is for young lads any more. They are more interested in games and women.
     
    Bazza-spark likes this.
  17. Bazza-spark

    Bazza-spark Screwfix Select

    And mobile phones.
     
    bright_Spark likes this.
  18. bright_Spark

    bright_Spark Screwfix Select

    They are never off the things. Not sure what they do on them as I never take mine out unless I am answering the phone or making a call.
     
  19. Offshore

    Offshore Active Member

    Working in the offshore industry comes with many rules and regulations for electrical work (and all other kinds of work to be fair). For instance, CompEx for working with electrical equipment in hazardous areas, which is a fairly tough course (I know a few experienced guys who have failed at first attempt). You also need to stay on top of it for the four years between courses as you often have to inspect and verify installations as part of maintenance regimes and ensure they remain fit for purpose. There are multiple procedures for working with electrical equipment in non-hazardous locations on the platform and company standards for installing equipment, cables, glanding, terminating etc to go with all that. Furthermore, there is the isolation of electrical equipment for 3rd parties to work on e.g. a mechanic working on a pump will require the pump to be isolated to prevent movement of machinery and/or generation of pressure etc. This is a massive part of every day life and carries a significant legal responsibility to identify and make safe the correct equipment.
    I am not a spark (Instrument Technician) but work with electricity and electrical equipment all the time - from 5v d.c. up to 440V a.c. - so we have quite a plethora of boxes to tick before we can be let loose. It can be a sobering thought when you are working on a circuit (or loops as we like to call them), knowing that you can shut down a platform if you pull the wrong wire - very costly. It doesn't matter how quickly you put the wire back in the terminal, it never works! Not that I've done that of course.........
    It frustrates me that I cannot (legally) work on my own house as I am more than capable of doing so. I don't think industrial v domestic is easier or harder, just different.
     
    Ind spark and Kingscurate like this.
  20. bright_Spark

    bright_Spark Screwfix Select

    Industrial is technicaly more challenging of the two disciplins but the point is we do not have the ridiculous schemes conjured up for the domestic sparks. As an industrial sparks you are not forced into joining a scheme in order to carry out your job. Your qualifications are what are accepted by anyone who wants to know. If you are a qualified spark why on earth do you have to join a scheme to justify that?
     
    techie, Bazza-spark and Ind spark like this.

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