Can any builders advise please?

Discussion in 'Builders' Talk' started by cmmc57, Jan 17, 2023.

  1. cmmc57

    cmmc57 New Member

    Hi, I have a bit of a messy situation with some work that I had done and I am looking for any advice.

    I had a builder knock through the kitchen wall into the garage on the other side. The previous owner had already had the garage converted, and said that no builidng regs were needed; not sure if that's correct, but that's another story, as my builder didn't do it - I'm surprised that he never mentioned building regs when he did the job though, and if anything didn't look right I would have thought that he would have pointed it out and quoted to correct it as part of the job. As well as knocking through the wall, his company also did electrics, radiators, plastering and flooring.

    He told me at the time that the wall isn't load bearing, and so a concrete lintel would be fine, and this is what he installed. It's a big thick wall about 16'' thick, and the opening is a double doorway, about 5ft wide. I'm now not confident in his claim that it's not a load bearing wall, as I talked to someone who knows about these things and said they'd be surprised if that is the case.

    I'm so worried that things haven't been done properly (also have concerns about insulation, floor level etc for the conversion that was already done), I think I'm going to have to call the council to come and check, so that I can be sure. If the wall does turn out to be load bearing and my builder said it isn't, and has therefore not done the job safely, where do I stand?
     
  2. Truckcab79

    Truckcab79 Screwfix Select

    You’re right he should have told you, or should have refused to do the work if it wasn’t to regs. However ultimately it’s the homeowners responsibility not his. He just did what you asked by the sound of it. You can call the council but they’ll tell you you need a surveyor. You also have then flagged up your possibly illegal work to them so you open another whole can of worms. Personally I’d employ a surveyor first to determine what you need or indeed if it’s all correct. If it is then all good. If not then chalk it up to experience, get it fixed and keep your head down with the council.

    You can approach the builder to remedy it but if he doesn’t know or care enough to do it properly then he’ll probably not be interested in redoing it.

    Fingers crossed for you that it’s all ok. Ultimately it’s all down to you, not the builder unless you have it in writing or drawing that he deviated from planned or from correct method.
     
    Roys likes this.
  3. cmmc57

    cmmc57 New Member

    Thanks so much @Truckcab79, I was thinking about getting a structural survey of the area to put my mind at rest.

    Can't a builder be prosecuted if they do unsafe work? I'm turning it over in my mind thinking that if he can, why wouldn't he just do it properly in the first place. Why take the risk of being negligent? So I hope he was right.

    As we only removed part of the wall, is it at all possible that a RSJ wouldn't be necessary, and a concrete lintel would be sufficient? We had a quote from another builder who would also have done it with concrete rather than steel.
     
  4. Jord86

    Jord86 Screwfix Select


    You’ve rigged the noose up for the builder before a single thing is proven yet. The person who “knows about these things”, where is their professional input in the matter? As Truckcab mentioned, building control involvement is the homeowners responsibility not the builders, I wouldn’t bother with the surveyor myself as I see it as a waste of money, building control will need to see the work regardless and will soon tell you whether it passes muster or not.
     
  5. cmmc57

    cmmc57 New Member

    Thanks @Jord86, yes I've heard that it's my responsibility, but considering that the works would need to be inspected at certain stages throughout the job, I don't see how the builder could fail to be involved in this. And if he's happy to work in this manner, knowing that things that need to be done, haven't been done, and not mentioning it to me -well, that's why I don't trust him and can't rely on his claim that it's a non load bearing wall and steel isn't needed.

    thank you for the advice - a bit confused now though as Truckcab said that the council will tell me to speak to a surveyor first, and you're saying a surveyor isn't needed if I'm getting building control in.
     
  6. The Happy Builder

    The Happy Builder Screwfix Select

    @cmmc57

    you need to take the plaster off the walls and expose both ends of the lintel and their bearings onto the walls, then pay a structural engineer to come and have a look at them, then take his advice.

    Regards contacting the council, it was your responsibility to do so in the first place not the builders and the council don’t provide a consultation and guidance service to homeowners who have employed builders to do work without making the required application and paying the LABC fee.

    The builders work may have been completed to a satisfactory standard, which means legally the only person in the wrong is you and you may have living accommodation that does not have Building Control approval and you may be under paying your Council Tax as the Rateable Value of your home may have increased with this additional living space.
     
  7. stevie22

    stevie22 Screwfix Select

    You can apply to BC for a regularisation certificate which will cost bit more than doing it right in the first place but likely less than a surveyor or SE, neither of whom I would expect you to need if it's a small opening and the builder did a sensible job.

    Get them round and see what they want to look at before you start knocking holes

    Nothing at all wrong with a concrete lintel, so long as right size
     
  8. Offshore

    Offshore Active Member

    Just my tuppence worth. I'm not a builder, but have converted a couple of garages in the past and also had a structural dispute (not garage related) with a builder recently, so hopefully can throw in some useful input. I think the previous owner may be incorrect in saying building regs weren't required. It sounds like he may have been confusing it with planning permission, which may not have been needed if changes were all internal. I live in Scotland and I'm sure any work of this type would require a Building Warrant and approved plans etc. Even if the wall is non-load bearing, I would imagine a proper assessment would be required by an architect or SE to deem it so. If it is load bearing then they would supply the calculations and specification for the appropriate lintel - concrete, steel or even timber. Again, only speaking from my experience with the Scottish system, these things are usually picked up by solicitors during the process of purchasing the house. If there has been any alteration work done then appropriate documentation should be in place to prove it has been done correctly, this should then be passed on to subsequent owners. It doesn't necessarily mean it has been done unsafely, it just needs to be verified by an appropriate professional. The council will likely employ building inspectors but, in my experience, they generally look for architects or SEs to provide the technical info/specification. Unfortunately, this may need inspections which can be quite intrusive - bitter personal experience here, having recently had to have a steel beam retrofitted into a finished extension. It is messy and a total PITA but not insurmountable.
     
  9. cmmc57

    cmmc57 New Member

    Thanks for all input, especially @stevie22 - that's very reassuring!

    Going to talk to the council about regularisation and get them to take a look, will then get a SE if needed. I can't spend the next 20 years until we sell the house worrying about it, so better sort it out now.
     

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