Electrium consumer unit and RCBO trip why?

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by Joseph William Smith, May 24, 2023.

  1. adgjl

    adgjl Screwfix Select

    No there isn’t, as the OP has finished apart from a few faults that would have been found during testing and caused the installation to fail Building Regis approval. The only solution now is retrospective approval, and hope no more faults are discovered.
     
  2. MGW

    MGW Screwfix Select

    When I did it, the LABC inspector came to the house and noted the test equipment, and wanted to verify I had the knowledge, he wanted to start with to call in a third party inspector, but was convinced I had the skill.

    I tested the job and completed the insulation certificate, I delivered this to the shire hall, and the completion certificate arrived in the post.

    After the initial meeting we never saw the LABC inspector again, we could have got away with anything, however we were not likely to put my parents in danger, so suppose he felt he could trust us. Both my son and I have C&G 2391 and at the time it was C&G 2381 for BS 7671.

    It is of course the same with scheme members, they may get the odd job checked, but in the main they are trusted, we didn't know the LABC inspector would not visit again, so we were unlikely to not do it correctly.

    The only thing we did not have was the calibration certificates for the test equipment. And it is not complete until you get the completion certificate, and there was nothing to link the completion certificate to the installation certificate sent to us, I would assume there is in the shire hall, but when house was sold we miss laid the certificates, so asked for replacements, were were told it would take 4 months, in other words go away.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2023
  3. The Happy Builder

    The Happy Builder Screwfix Select

    I know a landlord who went to court to try and get a tenant who owes several thousand pounds in unpaid rent evicted.

    The landlord failed to get the tenant evicted because he had not got valid electrical certification to prove the electrical installation was safe at the start of the tenancy.

    This is a privately rented home and only an idiotic landlord fails to ensure that they have all the required paperwork.
     
  4. Bob Rathbone

    Bob Rathbone Screwfix Select

    I know we all should be registered with a a 'Part P' provider when we do domestic installs, this is put in place with the main goal of ensuring customer safety. Here we see an example of this scheme failing, yes we may blame the installer but the bottom line is that this should not happen at all. The over riding reason why this is happening is cost, we as electricians should pay the fee to the providers (who provide no service at all) and we pass this on to our customers. If we are self certificating work wouldn't it be much better if that is what we did, provided a ECR or completion cert that was ours, we were trusted to do it right and we have our trade qualifications and public indemnities to cover the customer. Their is no need for external agencies to oversee our work, the paper trail will lead back to the inspector if things go wrong. In the case of our OP it is he who would sign, he who would accept responsibility, what's wrong with that?
     
    MGW likes this.
  5. MGW

    MGW Screwfix Select

    @Bob Rathbone is spot on, an electrician should have insurance, and if he fails to do the work satisfactory and the insurance provider has to foot the bill, his insurance will raise, that is what happens with any commercial building, the building manager wants to see the insurance certificate before you start.

    However before Part P we had every Tom, Dick and Harry doing domestic electrical work, try finding an electrical certificate for a domestic property dated before 2004.

    Theory one would be kicked out of the Union if you did substandard work, so without Union membership you had a problem finding a job, then Thatcher stopped all that, only for it to be replaced by the scheme providers, and as long as there are many scheme providers then it does not fall foul of Thatchers laws. Should we ever get to the point where there is only one, then it would all have to stop, as they would be doing same as the Unions, with a different name.

    I worked in Petro chemical where to be caught without the proving for dead equipment was instant dismissal, they could not show you had used the equipment, but since you had it to hand, I always did, the same applies with loop impedance testers, insulation testers, and RCD testers, if you have them to hand you will use them.

    What the schemes have done is ensure the electrician has the tools, when I started as an apprentice if I asked for the loop impedance tester, the boss wanted to know why I was wasting time with that, the same getting wiring regulations out.

    We worked by Chinese whispers, we never saw the regulations, and for years I thought it was against the rules to have a socket within 1.5 meters of the sink, and that kettle leads were made 1.25 meters long so you had to unplug them before filling them.

    To some extent the same applies today, I was told can't drill beam except for centre third, never seen a rule to say that. Some rules we know why they were made, the 100 sq meter rule for a ring final is not required if you ensure the volt drop does not exceed 5% and the MCB can trip on the magnetic part of the unit, but to know that we in the main need the loop impedance tester.

    We all take short cuts, take the loop impedance, replace a socket and test continuity of ring, and when replaced test loop impedance again and we can be reasonably sure no wire has become disconnected, maybe we should test at the consumer unit, R1 + R2 etc. But we know it is within limits from the loop impedance reading. And because we use it on a regular basis when you get a reading which is unexpected it rings alarm bells.

    I actually had this on the C&G 2391 exam, the loop readings were within limits, but the ring final was on a test board, far too small for those readings, so I looked further and found resistors in the wires, which would have gone on fire had anyone used those sockets, seems the lecturer was trying to emulate the readings for a typical home, but could not pass some thing which would have gone on fire.

    The point is of course, one has used them that much, you could write out an installation certificate with all the readings without every using the meters, as one unstintingly know what to expect. But my son as an inspector would say, one reading found not to nearly match the certificate and you test very carefully as likely the electrician has guesstimated, so we use the meters every time.

    We know if we drive at 100 MPH for a short time, unless very unlucky, unlikely to get caught, but if we do it regulatory in the end we will get caught, so we stay within the limits, and it is the same with out job, if we don't follow the regs in the end we will get caught, but it can take some time.
     

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