Negotiable??

Discussion in 'Builders' Talk' started by levets, Feb 15, 2006.

  1. levets

    levets New Member

    Hi,

    I've recently had a number of quotes for a single storey extension on my house and all have come in around the £22k inc VAT mark.

    My question is this - how negotiable are builders on prices? My normal policy is that everything is negotiable but to what level is this normally acceptable without compromising the quality of the work by them rushing the job?

    Also, my company has recently negotiated a 20% discount with Travis Perkins on their TP1 price list. Is it worth me buying the materials myself for the builder, are most builders likely to entertain this or TP overpriced at this isnt such a good discount after all?

    Any help would be much appreiciated? Thanks!
     
  2. Dereekoo

    Dereekoo Member

    Yer pays yer money yer take your choice. £600 to £1200 per m2. Money in the hand or through the books. Are they busy or not. Get minimum of 3 quotes (not estimates) Make sure all the specification i's and tees are dotted and crossed. Mate had £12000 quote for a job, then through a friend of a friend, money in hand, job quoted at £80000 but believe there has been a few extras. Have not pressed for info as he is stressed out, job supposed to take 5 months now in 9th month.
     
  3. yorkshireboy

    yorkshireboy Member

    Most decent builders will be busy and have work waiting so will not bother trying to negotiate with you The prices do not seem excessive but it is hard to say without knowing the size and materials ie stone or brick Personally i would not do the job if the customer was buying their own materials
     
  4. levets

    levets New Member

    Just out of interest why wouldnt you take a job on if you could specify and have the materials bought for you? Is there some mark up on the materials? Do you pass the material cost on at trade of full price?

    Not a criticism I'm just interested to know how things work...
     
  5. Dereekoo

    Dereekoo Member

    Spot on Levets. Whats in matter who is buying the materials except its easier to see the labour charges when the material costs are known.
     
  6. yorkshireboy

    yorkshireboy Member

    Its difficult to specify exactly what you need and lots more hassle than just ordering or picking up from your own suppliers Also there is probably more profit and you can claim back the VAT
     
  7. audi-evo

    audi-evo Active Member

    yep but could you actually get a labour only quote for a home extension?
     
  8. Yer pays yer money yer take your choice. £600 to
    £1200 per m2. Money in the hand or through the books.
    Are they busy or not. Get minimum of 3 quotes (not
    estimates) Make sure all the specification i's and
    tees are dotted and crossed. Mate had £12000 quote
    for a job, then through a friend of a friend, money
    in hand, job quoted at £80000 but believe there has
    been a few extras. Have not pressed for info as he is
    stressed out, job supposed to take 5 months now in
    9th month.

    There is a common misconception here, there is legally no difference between a quote or an estimate, you're not obliged to stand by either, they both mean the same thing (legally that is).
     
  9. Bob Property

    Bob Property New Member

    Two points. I don't think 20% off TP's prices is much of a discount. If you, as the customer, buys the materials, what are you going to do if you run short or don't get a delivery on time? Would you agree to pay the contractor some sort of standby fee?
     
  10. audi-evo

    audi-evo Active Member

    i thought a quote was a fixed price.
    "a quotation a fixed price for the job - estimates can be changed after they have been agreed to, but quotations cannot."
    from trading standards.
     
  11. Dereekoo

    Dereekoo Member

    Thats right a quote is a fixed price an estimate can be varied. Do not anyone tell you different.
     
  12. dunc

    dunc New Member

    If you have drawings and some experience of building, then there's no reason why you can't manage the job yourself. You just need to be clear about your responsibilities with the builders. They can still give a quote for labour.

    However, builders have vast experience and this is what makes some operations work so well. If they decide to leave all the thinking to you, you may discover a lot of unexpected surprises. Most people work their best if they feel responsible.

    Materials can come in a variety of shapes, sizes and quantities. These are not always the easiest to handle on site and could result in a lot of wastage. Builders know where to get the right materials for each job. So if your order was wasteful or required extra handling it would actually be more expensive.

    A quote is an agreed price for the job. The customer must pay the price, but does not have to pay for any extra costs.
     
  13. nicknuv

    nicknuv New Member

    Spot on audio.
     
  14. audi-evo

    audi-evo Active Member

    i am looking at having an my groundfloor extention carried on upstairs and also to convert the storage space above my shop into a flat.
    I have a few trade contacts for some materials through my work eg; kitchens,timber,tiles,flooring etc, so if i had any work done i would like to utilise these, obviously i would have to take responsibility for having the right stuff in the right place at the right time (or suffer the consiquences)
     
  15. nicknuv

    nicknuv New Member

    the other problem when procuring materials yourself is, if the materials aren't delivered on time, aside from the downtime bill, the contractor may leave site and return weeks or months later. this is particularly relevant during the summer when works in schools, roofing projects etc. are taking place, not to mention the labour force being on holiday. something i personally have experienced as a contract manager and a real headache. bear in mind that doing the right job for the right price v the right job for the wrong price, you'll probably get lower priority. just my opinion, not based on science, but experience.
     
  16. nicknuv

    nicknuv New Member

    one other thing...the public sector budgets are issued in the new financial year and many expedite projects as soon as they have the funding...this also takes many good contractors out of the equation.
     
  17. ­

    ­ New Member

    It always makes me laugh when joe public suggests buying the materials for a building project!

    What do you know about buying building materials?

    Nothing, that's what!

    Right from the get-go, skips for muck away. What would you order? Builders skip? Ro-ro skip? Grab loader? Which is best for the particular job?

    Concrete now. What do you know about Readymix concrete? What mix, what slump, how many loads? Same truck on tip and return or all come at once? Concrete pump?

    Bricks. How many? Say the job needed 8,000 bricks but (unknown to you) you could get 9,000 bricks cheaper as this may be a full load whereas 8,000 bricks would trigger a part-load charge?

    Sand. What type, loose or in 1 tonne bags, direct from pit or through merchant?

    Blocks. (Same as bricks)

    I could go on but I'm sure you get the picture.

    In addition there are items such as:

    Joists, hangers, nails, screws, silicones, adhesives, scrim, beads, flooring deck, stairs, windows, sealed units, lintels, rafters, roof tiles, battens, breathable felts, air bricks, periscopes, cavity insulation, plasticiser, flue liners, flettons, plaster, plasterboard, door linings, radiators, copper pipe, cylinders, tanks, valves, scaffold, fascias, barge boards, valleys, flashings, joist seals, cavity closers, dpc, dpm, cement, plant hire, screed, celotex, extractor fans, steel beams, padstones, etc etc etc

    You can't expect the builder to work out what you need if he's not making anything out of it. That's why he's in business (to make money).

    Ok, it's fair enough to supply your own kitchen let's say but all the building materials, definately not.

    Whatever discount a builder can get from a merchant is his good fortune and part of his trading profit. Take that away from him and his labour charges will go up to compensate so you still lose.

    Also, if you supply the gear are you going to be around to unload it? You ordered it after all? How will you know when to order what bits? You won't.

    You're not a builder so you shouldn't get involved in any of this.

    When you take your car to be serviced do you supply the garage with oil and filter you bought from Halfords? Of course not, and if you did I'm sure they would tell you what to do with your filter.....
     
  18. ­

    ­ New Member

    btw, I forgot to add, if you've had several quotes all around the same price, why do you think you should get it cheaper?

    What if your employer said to you one day "We want to pay you less, what discount off your salary would you accept?
     
  19. Captain Chaos

    Captain Chaos Member

    I have found travis perkins a bit expensive so your discount won't be worth the hassle. Asking for a discount befor you start work wil not enamour you to the builder. If you want to save costs you could self manage the project but this is really a full, and I mean FULL time job. If you want a bargain choose the best quality builder you can find at the price you are prepared to pay .. that doesn't mean the cheapest.
     
  20. Captain Chaos

    Captain Chaos Member

    make that best price you can afford NOT prepared to pay.What you are prepaed to pay will probably leave you dissapointed.
     

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