party wall laugh!!!!

Discussion in 'Builders' Talk' started by audi-evo, Sep 1, 2008.

  1. audi-evo

    audi-evo Active Member

    A mate has a wall between his and next doors drives, been there years.
    The wall has a few half bricks on the first course for drainage.
    Some of "his" water drains through these gaps in into next doors drain.
    They have fell out and the guy next door has blocked the holes so his water has no where to go.
    I have been rolling the floor laughing @ this situation but have told him i would ask the oracles of sf for guidance.
    Can he reinstate the holes or does he need to make new arrangements for draining his water.
     
  2. doing a bit

    doing a bit New Member

    daft dispute but the girlfriend has exactly the same with neighbours, i would suggest he has to make other arrangements
     
  3. audi-evo

    audi-evo Active Member

    i think it's one of these things that will escalate.
    People in the street are taking sides!
    it's WAR!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  4. hallbeck

    hallbeck New Member

    I think that you will find that the neighbour can't do this. Run off is run off - where would we be if surface water couldn't leave our boundaries!
     
  5. clueless jon

    clueless jon New Member

    Get him to check with his solicitor, but i'd have thought he's got an established right to discharge his run off onto his neigbours land, and there's nothing the neigbour can do about it.
     
  6. audi-evo

    audi-evo Active Member

    all of the houses in the street are the same, all have these holes in the bottom of the party wall.
    Every 2 semis have the same set up.
     
  7. sinewave

    sinewave Screwfix Select

    but i'd have thought he's got an established right to discharge his run off onto his neigbour
    <u>_________________________________</u>


    There's specialist websites for that sort of Filth!
     
  8. audi-evo

    audi-evo Active Member

    you didn't finish
    "he's got an established right to discharge his run off onto his neigbour".............................'s wife,
    better!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  9. devil's advocate

    devil's advocate New Member

    Since this draining set-up is common to all these semi-detached houses, I suspect very strongly that your mate has a legal right to discharge his drive's water through these gaps - it was the way the house were built, and the draining was intended.

    If so, if the build-up of water on his drive causes any damage to his property - flooding his garage, for example - he can sue his neighb for this damage.

    BUT, he'd need to check this out using - hopefully - his deeds, or else by employing a solicitor.



    However, he should really try and sort this out as amicably as possible, as it doesn't make anybody's life pleasant - however much people think it's a laughing matter.

    I bet your mate is also pretending to find it 'funny', and 'enjoys' slagging off his neighb to all and sundry?

    But I also bet he and his family don't actually enjoy their lives much at the moment.

    What was the original cause of the fall-out?

    Although he, no doubt, thinks of his neighb as being the most head-bangingly unreasonable and downright unpleasant person on gOD's earth at the moment, and can't imagine ever being able to strike a 'deal' with him, he should look into sorting this out using mediation services.

    He can ask at the local police station/council offices/citizens' right for a nearby contact. He'd be the 'bigger' man for doing this.

    (And, if it escalates to legal or police action, he will have shown that he was the more reasonable party in trying to resolve this - which helps.)
     
  10. audi-evo

    audi-evo Active Member

    I think it started with lots of silly things, kids fighting, car parked 2mm over the others drive, my christmas lights are better than yours, etc.
    I do find it funny, i have to bite my lip every time he bangs on about it.
    Two grown men arguing over a bit of water!!!!!!!!
    It ain't a flood!!!!!
    With the hole unblocked and only if a real downpour there is a bit of a flow of water through the hole and into the neighbours drain, if blocked the water lingers a bit on my mates side but does find its way along the wall and off the end of the drive, allbeit a bit slowly.
    Both my mate and the guy next door are fuming with each other, not pretending to find it funny.
    That's what i find funny, how consumed they are with it all, IT'S JUST A PUDDLE!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  11. Herr Trigger

    Herr Trigger New Member

    I've got to agree with Devs entirely on this one.

    The drainage holes were there for a reason, and it aint ***-fet-ics (sp!)

    There will be a legally binding document somewhere, i have known this myself in the past.

    Adjoining properties lend themselves to mutual legal requirements.
     
  12. Mr GrimNasty

    Mr GrimNasty Active Member

    There won't be any 'document'.
    Easements (the right to shed runoff in this case) are often implicit and not documented.
    The law tends to assume they exist rather than don't!
    If the estate was built & sold like that then an easement is assumed to exist.
    And anyway if it has been like that for over 20 years a prescriptive right is automatically acquired.

    Whatever, the neighbour cannot block the drainage holes - but it'll take expensive civil action to force him to comply.
     
  13. devil's advocate

    devil's advocate New Member

    A-e, is there ANY chance that your mate can rein in his ego and be big enough to approach his neighb and suggest mediation?

    (And the irony is that both your mate and his neighb really believe they are being 'big' by keeping this charade going and not backing down. The truth is that it takes a much bigger attitude to make the first 'humble-but-assertive' move, and show a bit of rational reasonableness. And we know this it the truth because it is actually EASIER to keep things going the way they are - it takes REAL self-assurance to make this first conciliatory move.)

    If the build-up of water on your mates drive was to cause damage, then his neighb would be liable.

    Ok, you say it isn't a real problem, but perhaps your mate could still use this as a lever to get his neighb to the mediation table?

    Your mate should also look at his house insurance and see if he has 'legal protection cover'. If he does, then he should be able to call up an advice line and tell them what his neighb has done and that he's 'concerned' it could cause long-term water/damp damage to his house. I think he'll find that the insurance company will prefer to take steps to prevent future damage occurring rather than wait and pay out for actual repair later. Their legal representatives might even write to your mate's neighb about the drains and 'put them on notice*'.

    With this lever, it could be the best time to approach his neighb and say 'this is getting daft - how about trying to sort it all out?'

    The thing about mediation is that it is completely impartial, and both sides get to air their grievances - and reply to the other side's complaints. The mediator will then look to find something on BOTH sides that can be improved, so that both sides fell they've gained and had their complaints answered. It won't work if only one side is brow-beaten to submission - he'll just feel resentful, and he'll always be looking for a reason to kick it all off again. This doesn't tend to happen if both sides believe they've gained something.

    (If you mate can think of some things that he'd be 'happy' to 'stop doing' against his neighb, that would be useful!)

    At the moment, it's likely that your mate feels he's the only one who's being 'wronged', but I guess the truth is different!

    (*If your mate isn't up to doing this, and just wants to be bolshie and escalate the situation (for the entertainment of this foum... :)), then HE should at least put his neighb 'on notice' of the possible damage being caused to his house by the blocked drain. Once the neighb has been 'put on notice' about the possible consequences, then he IS legally liable should damage subsequently be caused.)
     
  14. audi-evo

    audi-evo Active Member

    Well he has now told the guy to fec off.
    He has a paving guy who is putting a drain of somesort in for not much money.
     
  15. devil's advocate

    devil's advocate New Member

    Tsk, tsk - that's one up for the neighb methinks :(


    Have you told your mate he's a twit? ;)
     
  16. starlight tiles

    starlight tiles New Member

    right where do we start on this one.
    you can only mediate if both parties are willing to.
    if you live next door to mr arrogance who thinks he owns the road/the chances are he won't turn up at any meeting to mediate.
    these meetings often turn into slanging matches.
    best way to go
    get your mate to check out his home insurance to see if he has legal expenses on it.
    if so tell them what the situation is and ask for a surveyor to site inspect.
    see what he says and take it from there.
     
  17. devil's advocate

    devil's advocate New Member

    Absolutely right, DD, both parties need to agree.

    Some will descend into a slanging match - most, however, won't. This is because the mediator will allow each person a proper chance to talk their point through completely without interruption, whereas over the garden wall this just doesn't happen.

    I also thought that a-e's mate was actually in a position to 'arm twist' the neighb to the mediation table since the neighb has clearly - in my view - overstepped the mark here in a very obvious and actionable way.

    Armed with this lever, a-e's mate could take on the role of being Mr Reasonable; "Look, I don't really want to take legal action over this, and the situation isn't nice for either of us, so how about..."

    He doesn't even have to make this direct approach himself - possibly his insurer's legal team could call the neighb or even - don't laugh - the local 'beat' bobby.

    But, it requires a level of maturity that most people simply don't have.
     
  18. Mr GrimNasty

    Mr GrimNasty Active Member

    By gum, some people lke to type.
     
  19. audi-evo

    audi-evo Active Member

    Indeed mr grim, even after the problem has been resolved.
    In a week or two he will have his "own" drainage sorted.
    Not a lot of money, only a mornings work.
    Has the neighbour won? i don't think so, just shows him up to be the idiot he is.
     
  20. mad.max

    mad.max New Member

    Clearly, the wall argument is a sympton, not a cause. Like the run off water, it goes deeper
     

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