Gas fire query

Discussion in 'Plumbers' Talk' started by smithybora, Mar 25, 2009.

  1. smithybora

    smithybora New Member

    Hi Guys.

    Could someone help me understand a problem, with a gas fire.

    Been working on a customers house and she has had problems with feeling sick. A gas man came and said that the gas fire is not burning enough gas. Some reading of 17, instead of 20. What ever that is. He said this is causing the carbon poisioning.

    Would this be true. As she spoke to another guy, and he said that it shoudn't effect it having a low gas flow.

    any help would be great as she seems stressed about it.

    thanks
    tony
     
  2. Triplock

    Triplock New Member

    Firstly, I'm not a plumber, so cannot give any diagnostic advice. All I can say is is that this is one of the rare occasions where the worst case senario is assumed first. In this instant, it has been inferred that there is a risk of carbon-monoxide poisoning. To this end I, if I were the tenant / owner would presume this, until a full check as been carried out by a suitably qualified person at the point of suspected risk. It is not something that can been resolved through speculation from people detached from the situation, whether qualified or not.

    This seems a sensible approach, unless the o/p has comprehensive indemity insurance :(

    Triplock
     
  3. andys342

    andys342 Member

    was he talking about gas pressure ie 20 mbar which is about normal working pressure at inlet to gas appliances but u have 17 mbar when fire is working is that what u mean
     
  4. tomplum

    tomplum Active Member

    if it was me attending, I'd condenm it if someone mentioned sickness, because of the fear of jail, many will feel the same, and it could be nothing to do with the fire, is it worth the risk ? NO
     
  5. tightenit

    tightenit New Member

    Wonder why the gasman left it as it was? Sounds like a porky doesn't it?
     
  6. andys342

    andys342 Member

    did he turn it off
     
  7. smithybora

    smithybora New Member

    Thanks guys.

    Sorry about the mis understanding. The gas man did condem it. He left a red label on the fire.

    The presure was at 17 at the gas fire.

    The women was feeling sick and tired for the last 3 months. Once she stopped using the fire, She was fine.

    What would cause this. Would it be the low presure or would it be the gas fire.

    tony
     
  8. ponty01.

    ponty01. New Member

    the utilities would have isolated the gas supply if they attended such a situation.

    it sounds like somebody is meddling with gas when they shouldn't be.
     
  9. andys342

    andys342 Member

    is the 17 working or burner pressure
     
  10. andys342

    andys342 Member

    this sounds fishy to me
     
  11. smithybora

    smithybora New Member

    No body is meddling with the gas at all.

    The 17 for the presure i think was while burning and it was dropping as well.

    Would low presure cause the carbon thing.

    tony
     
  12. Bonedry

    Bonedry New Member

    Could be many things including poor ventilation or an issue with the flue.

    As has been said just get an experienced RGI in to sort it out!
     
  13. plummit

    plummit New Member

    I am interested in this one,
    pending the flue and ventilation is satisfactory, would a low working pressure present a health risk ?.
     
  14. tomplum

    tomplum Active Member

    could do plummit, the burner is designed for a mix of gas and air at a set ratio, if one or the other are lacking, this can cause incomplete combustion,which in turn can cause carbon monoxide,
     
  15. plummit

    plummit New Member

    Cheers tomplum,
    The lack of natural gas could cause in-complete combustion ?.
    My gas ticket ran out some 4 years ago, and I have never replaced.
    Would this show any signs of spillage etc.
    I am really interested. and thankful for any advice
     
  16. mad.max

    mad.max New Member

    if it was me attending, I'd condenm it if someone
    mentioned sickness, because of the fear of jail, many
    will feel the same, and it could be nothing to do
    with the fire, is it worth the risk ? NO


    Sorry, Tom, but this is a bit of a cop out. A proffesional approach would be to determine if the gas fire is safe or not. Someone being poorly
    does not always mean a fire is faulty. Conduct tests and effect repairs.

    If the gas man who visited was Transco (or the new equivalent), then they wil cut off the fire and direct the client to engage an RGI. If the fire is causing the sickness, then you have to determine exactly why.

    Andys query was totally ignored, but it was the most intelligent comment to date. Is the 17mb, the BURNER OR INLET pressure. the inlet pressure is nomally 19 - 21 mb, the burner pressure varies with the appliance. If the INLET pressure is 17mb, then the loss of pressure should be investigated. It will be poor pipe sizing or a restriction, or both.

    With regard to the question as to the production of CO by undergassing, then clearly this is not the case. You need approx 10 parts of air per part of gas for complete combustion, by reducing the gas available, LESS air is required. However, the primary air for combustion is entrailed, through the primary air port, by the speed of gas passing through and from the injector. It is feasible that this relationship COULD be affected by low pressure, and you would then need more secondary air, which may or may not be available, depending on fire design.

    One cannot give any real advice, apart from engage a RGI that has EXPERIENCE with fires. In my opinion if the fire is causing sickness, it is more likely to be due to a flue problem, e.g. blockage / bird nest etc.
     

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