bolting floor joist to single dividing wall

Discussion in 'Builders' Talk' started by compaq, Oct 1, 2009.

  1. compaq

    compaq New Member

    hiya
    Im securing a loft joists to a dividing wall shared with next door (the wall is only single skin - its an old house) I suggested using joist hangers which fit between mortar joints and pack down . But my mate suggest bolting a joist to the wall and hang the joists of that joist. Im bearing in mind that the wall which Im joining to is only single skin (half a brick). Any one else come across the same dilema????


    thanks in advance for any help
     
  2. I'm assuming your not getting building control involved ( like your supposed to ) but i would suggest following what your mate says, bolt a timber to the wall and have hangers hanging off it for the joists
     
  3. bapon 1

    bapon 1 New Member

    Have you entered into a party wall agreement?
     
  4. compaq

    compaq New Member

    You mean asking the neighbour, havent done yet but will do, I assume you asking to see If I can knock a hole throught the party wall and sit the joists on the party wall and make good his side.
     
  5. Removed 4

    Removed 4 New Member

    I very much doubt that your party wall is only single skin, whatever its age.

    However, the way to use joist hangers (on an existing structure, that is) is certainly to bolt a timber bearer to the wall, otherwise it would be a nightmare trying to establish the levels for each joist......


    Lucia.
     
  6. compaq

    compaq New Member

    seriously the dividing wall is single skin, we knocked through it a couple of weeks back. the main side walls of the house are single skin and the front and back walls are double, Dont ask me how or why but they are.
     
  7. Removed 4

    Removed 4 New Member

    How?

    Why?
     
    Vawallpa likes this.
  8. Big Jumbo

    Big Jumbo New Member

    No problem with the dividing wall being single skin, it was only ever intended as a fire break. The best idea would be to take the joists through the wall but this will require permission from the neighbour.
    The party wall act is not the same thing and when (if) you inform B.C. they will tell you what you need to do regarding this.
    Alternatively, a beam well bolted to the brickwork is the way to go. Ensure the joists are well fixed to this beam to reduce any chance of it pulling away.
     
  9. The Dormouse

    The Dormouse New Member

    I very much doubt that your party wall is only single skin, whatever its age.

    Hundreds of semi-detached properties on the estate I live in - built in 1929, have single skin party walls. This can be determined at several points by measuring in from adjoining window openings & exposed brick places in the loft.
     
  10. Removed 4

    Removed 4 New Member

    Congratulations, Dormouse, on visiting so many of those neighbouring properties with your tape measure.

    Well done, dear! It's good to stay active in retirement, I'd imagine........


    Lucia x
     
  11. The Dormouse

    The Dormouse New Member

    Neat bit of evasion, Lucia.
     
  12. compaq

    compaq New Member

    im using the raw bolts , I take it that will be enough to sure a joist to the single skin wall. I just dont want the wall falling down ????
     
  13. house and home

    house and home New Member

    would it not be better (all be it more difficult/ expensive) but better for all concerned, to run a steel from front to back of house sitting on the supporting walls below (that divide each bedroom etc) and then sit new floor joists for your loft into the steel at a 90* degrre to the steel then obviously there is no intrusion to the party wall and the steel then can carry the weight of the new floor etc!

    Its just an idea, in my opinion gets round the party wall hassles!!!! cheers!
     
  14. compaq

    compaq New Member

    the thing is there are no supporting wall below on the 1st floor weve taken everything out and theres an rsj holding the 1st floor. That rsj for the loft floor whoud have to be massive to span the length of the house ???? Is it still do able
     
  15. At the risk of a slating from the pros here (I'm just DiY) I put a first floor in our garage for storage as the roof was so high it was space crying out to be used. This obviously doesn't need to be as solid as a first floor habitable room floor, but what I did was bolted the joist to the wall as you've suggested and sat the ends of the main floor joists on top of it. I then wedged 4 x 2 uprights under the wall joist and fixed them to the wall. Now all the weight is bearing on those upright timbers and, if the mains joists are fixed to the wall joists, the bolts holding the wall joist to the wall could, in theory, be removed without anything moving. The result - no load on the wall.

    Maybe there's a similar solution to your problem here?
     
  16. Mr GrimNasty

    Mr GrimNasty Active Member

    I ain't got a clue what you done, but it sounds like skyhooks!
     
  17. Big Jumbo

    Big Jumbo New Member

    Yes, quite, they really are a great idea.. should be used more often.

    If I understand this correctly I don't think the o.p. would consider it desirable to have 4x2 tacked on the bedroom wall.
     
  18. Not skyhooks - the opposite. The uprights would go beneath the joist that is bolted to the wall and right down to the ground.

    I agree it depends what room is underneath the party wall, but it was the basic principle I was suggesting. I guess it boils down to a stud wall holding up the joist that bolts to the wall so that the weight of the floor doesn't bear on the existing party wall. But yes, it might mean losing a few inches of the room beneath.

    I was just throwing into the mix, that's all.
     
  19. house and home

    house and home New Member

    Just a suggestion but is it possible to increase the dividing wall between the two houses? i.e the party wall in the bedroom below must be double skin? the dividing wall that is there just as a fire break is it built on a duble skin wall? if it is then why not build the 2nd skin of bricks and tie the floor joist into this and the other end of the floor joists into the opposite side of your house? what are the dimensions of the area that you are working in i.e width of house and depth of house so we can get a better picture of what we are working with!
     
  20. Mr GrimNasty

    Mr GrimNasty Active Member

    LW - there is still load taken by your wall. In the real world as soon as you put the bolts through they will take the load to the wall. Even if you do jam your timbers tight against the floor - it will compress/shrink with time and the load will go to the wall anyway. And even if you don't believe that - what is stopping your timber deflecting away from the wall - yep more forces required!
     

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