8 core telephone cable for alarm??

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by Dj_Sprinks89, Oct 28, 2010.

  1. Dj_Sprinks89

    Dj_Sprinks89 New Member

    Hi people

    Just wondered is it possible to use 8 core telephone cable to wire a security alarm? (PIRs,Bell box,keypad,door contacts ect) And would it pass commissioning if done?

    I got hold of a load of long off cuts along with the old removed Menvier/ADT system from the sparks on a job i was working on and would like to install it in my massionette.

    I am a trainee sparks doing my second year of 2330 so could not commission myself yet!

    Thanks in advance for any help
     
  2. audievo

    audievo New Member

    off cuts???????????
    *** how much is a roll of alarms cable these days?
    I'm sure your bell wire will work.
    If your a trainee.............lesson 1, nick a roll from college ;)
     
  3. oliver1234

    oliver1234 New Member

    Yes it will work just fine.

    Some engineers would turn their nose up at it because it doesn't strictly meet the old BS4737 for intruder alarms but in reality it will work just fine.

    The only significant difference (in a domestic environment) is that telephone cable is single strand so is not quite as flexible as alarm cable which tends to have 7 strands.

    I fitted alarms for years and would happily use it in my own home.
     
  4. Badger001

    Badger001 New Member

    mate take a security enigneers advice, and do the job properly first time!, a roll of 8 core from the whole salers isnt going to cost much more than 15 quid, and will look a hell of a lot better if you do the right job with the right cable. dont become a cowboy by using the incorrect cable, do it right first time especially as your an aprentice in the spaky world,
     
  5. seneca2

    seneca2 New Member

    Agree with Badger for the same reasons plus the fact that telephone cable is bl**dy awful stuff to work with compared to stranded alarm cable.
     
  6. daff

    daff New Member

    Aye start as you mean to go on . Twisted pair is easy snapped if you are not used to it . Not ideal for a first installation. Use the right gear for the job along with the best tools you can afford and you're on the right road.
     
  7. Dj_Sprinks89

    Dj_Sprinks89 New Member

    Thank you all for your replys

    audivo-That made me laugh mate!

    oliver1234- I just wondered if it would pass an inspection? As I rent my massionette (I'm only 21! Lol) and the landlord has a contracting electrical company that test and certificate the electrics of the property when needed. So would it pass that? As it is not the type of cable really made for that job. I knew as far as I was aware it would be safe to used as only low voltage system and both are low voltage cables. Also if i was to leave it installed when i move out,it could cause problems for anyone sent to check it for the next tennent as the wires are colour coded differently

    Badger001,seneca2 and daff- I know I should not be so tight! but I have very little work at the moment so not much money. I thought the cable I got from that job was alarm cable but only realised it wasn't once i ran it and started stripping! :/ So I basically got the wrong cable off the sparks there! I would really like to use the proper cable for the job as I am not a fan of bodge jobs and for the trouble it could cause a future sparks who may have to service the system when I move out,just wondered if it would pass testing and inspection wired with this cable? So I think i may just put my project on hold till I have the dollar for the proper cable!
    And daff Im building a nice collection of high quality tools,if you buy quality,they will pay you back alot better than cheap poo which will break after a few jobs!. I'm a man that likes the best tho my bank balance doesn't always agree! :/
     
  8. daff

    daff New Member

    DJ .Thats me too champagne taste and only beer money Lol. Good luck .Keep your gear closer than your enemies.
     
  9. oliver1234

    oliver1234 New Member

    To be honest the other guys are right, you would be better to use the correct cable and it is very cheap.

    On the other hand if you are really strapped for cash it is very unlikely that your electrical inspectors are going to be remotely interested as long as you wire the mains correctly.

    BS4737 did specify stranded wire (as I recall) but that standard was written in 1988 and alarm systems have changed a lot in that time.

    As I said in my original answer I would happily use telephone type cable in my own house.

    Over the years I have worked for several national NACOSS alarm companies and we would reguarly take over the maintenance of existing systems, we would never be concerned about the type of cable used as long as the wiring provided the right level of protection against tampering.

    It really is up to you, electrically it will be fine using telephone cable but if you want a completely professional looking job use the proper stuff.
     
  10. daff

    daff New Member

    My turn . To be honest the only thing the testers MAY be concerned about is that cable is segregated from the mains cable, and the mains wiring and cpd are appropriate.
     
  11. Dj_Sprinks89

    Dj_Sprinks89 New Member

    Daff- Thats so true mate! And don't worry,I do!!

    oliver1234- I think I will use the proper cable as I would want all jobs I do to be professional! Both in my home and in a customers but I do understand that it would work just as good with the telephone cable,if a little fiddly to terminate! Also as i rent my house and will move out in a few years when I can get a mortgage,I think it would be best as it is rented and wont always be mine. I am bidding on a new 100m reel on eBay atm,only on £4.19! with £4.50 postage!

    daff- What do you mean by 'that the cable is segregated from the mains cable'? In some parts ie with the PIRs,I have ran the cables from loft to out the top of the service mount trunking from sockets as they conveniently were where I wanted my PIRs! :) But is this bad practice?
    Also do you mean the mains cable from control panel to consumer unit? It has to have a fused switch socket right and be on a separate MCB or do I need to use an RCD? I have located the control unit next to the consumer unit in the built in cupboard/wardrobe in bedroom.
     
  12. larnacaman

    larnacaman New Member

    Dj_Sprinks89,

    I think daff was referring to the fact that your telephone cable isn't insulated to the same value as the general supply cables. Therefore need to be segregated...
     
  13. Dj_Sprinks89

    Dj_Sprinks89 New Member

    Larnacaman- So I would be unable to run the alarm cable wire in the same trunking with the ring main cable? P.S. I am getting the proper cable for the job now!
     
  14. larnacaman

    larnacaman New Member

    Dj_Sprinks89,

    Not according to what i know of Reg's, but i'm still set in the 16th ed. ...Mind you, if the insulation level of this new cable is now the same or better than the building wire for the ring circuit, then i wouldn't be worrying too much. Is the new cable of the screened variety by the way ???
     
  15. Dj_Sprinks89

    Dj_Sprinks89 New Member

    Larnacaman-
    No its just standard alarm cable and I doubt the insulation is the same level as twin and earth as its only low voltage cable? The wiring in the house is quite old as its the old red/black colors! What is screened cable used for then? To protect against interference and inductance? Like ferrites on AV/computer cable?
     
  16. larnacaman

    larnacaman New Member

    Dj_Sprinks89,

    Basically that's exactly what screened cables protect against....

    There is quite a lot of multi core ELV cable that has sheathed covering insulation of 600v/1000v. Whether your cable is or not, you'll have to check. If it isn't, i'd be very wary of pulling it into a trunking carrying a ring, unless you can install a screened barrier between the two, at the very least any barrier at all!! lol!!
     
  17. daff

    daff New Member

    DJ. Sorry I did'nt get back to you I could'nt get onto the site.
    Larnacaman is correct your cables have to be insulated to the highest voltage present or be segregated in compartmented trunking , or 50mm from mains cable.
    You won't need a RCD if your
    mains cable is not buried etc. A dedicated supply is nice but not essential. An UN SWITCHED connection unit is preferable to a switched one for obvious reasons.
     
  18. daff

    daff New Member

    fused connection unit I should add
     

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