!0mm flooring gap problem

Discussion in 'Carpenters' Talk' started by GR1688, Mar 29, 2007.

  1. chippie244

    chippie244 Super Member

    I can't one finger type quick enough to keep up with this thread. I seem to have lit a blue touchpaper so I will retire.
     
  2. sandynkev

    sandynkev New Member

    totally agree with audi just finished an oak floor (i always read the idiot guide in case things have changed ) and it stated the same thing ref ch in summer etc and yes that statement in brackets must make me an idiot before anyone else gets it in
     
  3. chippie244

    chippie244 Super Member

    Oh bugg3r I can't. My front door is painted dark blue and faces south, when it's sunny it's hot to the touch and it jams.
     
  4. audi-evo

    audi-evo Active Member

    Laminate floors do absorb moisture and just like mdf the can experience dimensional changes because of it.
    Vinyl expands due to heat alone, heat vinyl up it gets bigger.
    We fit vinyl neat, thats how the customer wants it but it is common to have to go back and cut vinyl down if it experiences great temperature changes from van to home.
     
  5. chippie244

    chippie244 Super Member

    Audi i am in no way questioning you, but there are
    those with limited knowledge who will. ;)

    My feelings exactly. I'm just in a post pub debating mood and curious, I know f00k all about flooring.
     
  6. Mr. Handyandy

    Mr. Handyandy Screwfix Select

    Well i know p155 all about most things on here but i
    know how humidity affects floors, i do it every day
    ***.
    OK
    You can have a room at 28deg at different times of
    the year and it will react differently because of the
    humidity.
    Typically
    summer, 28deg high humidity, the moisture in the air
    is absorbed by the floor so it expands.
    As the winter starts you put your gas ch on for the
    first time of the year, it dries all the moisture out
    of the air then the floor, the floor contracts,
    both 28deg!!!!!!!!!




    Audi. You are artificially heating the wood with the CH. This will dry the wood out.


    Central heating kills plants that are in a vase of water. Why ? It is drying them out faster than they can draw water in. They don't die in the summer.

    You might say that there is more humidity in the air in the summer(as opposed to when there CH) and you'd be right.


    The fact is that wood contracts when it dries. And heat/warmth dries wood.

    Back to the decking. Rain on the decking dries up in the sun very quickly.

    Is this drying because of the warmth, or because of an increase in humidity ? Well, I know which one it is.



    Mr. HandyAndy - really
     
  7. audi-evo

    audi-evo Active Member

    I have fitted or had my staff fit over 10,000 floors, i have been to training courses from grundorf, tarkett, quickstep and a few more, wood floors do what i said and humidity is the most important factor to consider when fitting and maintaining them.
    Google as many floor fitting guides as you want, as many different manufacturers, dealers as you can find, the answer is always the same, why? because it is right!
     
  8. audi-evo

    audi-evo Active Member

    "You are artificially heating the wood with the CH. This will dry the wood out"
    thats what i said!
    If there is moisture in the air and it is warm the floor will expand!
    If there is no moisture in the air and it is warm the floor will contract!
     
  9. audi-evo

    audi-evo Active Member

    It's not the heat, it's the moisture!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  10. audi-evo

    audi-evo Active Member

    I'm off to bed!!!!!!!!!!
     
  11. I agree 100% with a-e, movement in timber is dependent on changes in humidity (moisture in the air).

    The higher the humidity the greater the opportunity for timber to expand, the lower the great the opportunity for timber to shrink.

    Temperature does have an effect but only marginally.

    Other factors are wood type, hard or soft, type of finish, age of timber, fixing method, etc etc.

    But overall humidity has the greatest effect.
     
  12. Mr. Handyandy

    Mr. Handyandy Screwfix Select

    My god. How many years have you been doing this ?

    If it is NOT warmth that dries it, pray tell me, go on, WHAT dries wood.

    WHAT takes the moisture out of wood ?




    Mr. HandyAndy - really
     
  13. audi-evo

    audi-evo Active Member

    Why do woods in hot humid conditions not contract?
    because the wood is full of moisture so bigger.
    Of course eventually if you dry something out it will contract but this can only happen once the moisture has gone.
    So the humidity not the temprature will dictate the expansion and contraction of the wood.
    Try boiling a piece of wood in a pan of water, tell me at boiling point how much will the wood contract, surely at this temperature it should dry out very quickly!
    It won't contract because it is full of moisture.
    Once again wood will only contract due to heat when all the moisture has gone.
     
  14. The driest air on this planet is located at the poles, ie the coldest places on the earth.

    The timber sheds that early explorers of the poles built have some of the most dessicated timber in the world, virtually zero moisture content.

    So it is not always warmth that dries timber.

    Drying timber in a kiln involves the control of air bourne moisture not temperature.
     
  15. chippie244

    chippie244 Super Member

    Very educational, thank you one and all.
     
  16. STGO

    STGO New Member

    They are right handy,
    Humidity content is the deciding factor on expansion and contraction of wood.
    Not temp, sorry mate :)
     
  17. Mr. Handyandy

    Mr. Handyandy Screwfix Select

    I know all about humidity. No problem.


    What dries wood ?


    Warmth and dry air.


    Put you board out in the sun(warmth). It will dry out in no time.

    The warmth draws the moisture from the wood.


    You can actually SEE it happening.


    Look at your fence in the morning. When the sun(warmth) comes out, you can SEE the moisture leaving the wood.

    What a lot of tripe I hear on these forums.


    Mr. HandyAndy - really
     
  18. I know all about humidity. No problem.


    What dries wood ?
    Low humidity

    Warmth and dry air.
    Not warmth, dry air

    Put you board out in the sun(warmth). It will dry out
    in no time.
    The surface of the board will

    The warmth draws the moisture from the wood.
    No it doesn't>

    You can actually SEE it happening.
    What you can see is surface moisture - dew>

    Look at your fence in the morning. When the
    sun(warmth) comes out, you can SEE the moisture
    leaving the wood.
    As above it is surface moisture

    What a lot of tripe I hear on these forums.
    You must listen to yourself a lot

    Mr. HandyAndy - really


    The moisture content of timber is measured at a cellular level, expansion and contraction of timber is caused by the cells of timber absorbing and loosing water and changing dimensions as a result
     
  19. Datacom

    Datacom New Member

    I think you'll find Andy is right, they dry wood in a kiln to remove the moisture. When wood is dry the veins in it that carried the water/nutrients around the tree collapse and shrink. When the wood is moist/wet these veins expand and cause the timber to expand also, timber is not affected by hot and cold weather by any significant amount. Far more significant is the moisture content in the air.
    This is why a freezing cold concrete slab with wood flooring on top, if moist will make the flooring buckle.
     
  20. audi-evo

    audi-evo Active Member

    "What dries wood ?
    Warmth and dry air."

    ah so now it is warmth and dry air,

    not

    "If it is NOT warmth that dries it, pray tell me, go on, WHAT dries wood."

    Only warmth as you previously said.

    As i have said the temperature does not govern the way wood expands and contracts but moisture content, and just because the temperature is high does not meant that it is dry!
     

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