!0mm flooring gap problem

Discussion in 'Carpenters' Talk' started by GR1688, Mar 29, 2007.

  1. sandynkev

    sandynkev New Member

    look your both sort of right dry air is or can be both warm and dry ie no water content or very little ,cold air freezes the water out of anything ie freeze drying process and we all know the warm air approach but in very warm cliamates ie thailand its still possible to be very warm and have no warter evaporation due to high levels of moisture in the air already
     
  2. I think you'll find Andy is right,
    No I think you will find that he is wrong

    When wood is dry the veins in it that carried the water/nutrients around the tree collapse and shrink.
    It is the cell structure of timber that expands and contracts with changes in moisture content

    timber is not affected by hot and cold weather by any significant amount.
    Not according to HandyAndy

    Far more significant is the moisture content in the air.
    I think you find that both Audi-Evo and myself have been saying this since this post started

    This is why a freezing cold concrete slab with wood
    flooring on top, if moist will make the flooring
    buckle.
    Hang on you just said that temperature is not relevant
     
  3. audi-evo

    audi-evo Active Member

    Carpet anyone! lol
     
  4. Guest

    Guys! try and resolve this before I go on holiday ........














    ..........................................................................................................................................................................IN AUGUST
     
  5. audi-evo

    audi-evo Active Member

    "Guys! try and resolve this before I go on holiday ........"
    hope your not going somewhere to humid! hot's ok but not humid!
     
  6. Mr. Handyandy

    Mr. Handyandy Screwfix Select

    Kitchen fitter, you said,

    "It is the cell structure of timber that expands and contracts with changes in moisture content."



    WHAT changes the moisture content from high to lower ?



    Mr. HandyAndy - really
     
  7. Mr. Handyandy

    Mr. Handyandy Screwfix Select

    And kitchen fitter, you say the moisture rising from the fence in the sun is surface moisture.


    AND what if it's in the sun all day long.


    Listen mate, the wood will dry out ALL THE WAY THROUGH.



    Mr. HandyAndy - really
     
  8. deadonmate

    deadonmate New Member

    "Holy ****!!!"

    In answer to GR1688 original post, Unless problems develope I would leave them alone, I can't see how you could get a tool in there to trim them easily? If problems develope I'd lift them, re-trim and re-lay, Good Luck

    To everyone else....what about climate change and global warming??? how's that goin to effect moisture, well apart from paying more tax which seems to be the governments way of dealing with it SOB's.

    Anyway if global warming is happening how come I'm workin outside, the sun's shinning, got me Hawai'n shirt on shorts and I'm B*llock froze lol
     
  9. Mr Kipling

    Mr Kipling New Member

    Handy you said earlier in this post:-

    "My god. How many years have you been doing this ?

    If it is NOT warmth that dries it, pray tell me, go on, WHAT dries wood.

    WHAT takes the moisture out of wood ?"

    The wood dries in a number of ways but basicly its the water trying to return to its natural gaseous state via evaporation that dries the wood out. Don't forget that water is just a bit of oxeygen and a bit of hydrogen mixed together. Now the argument going on here is what causes the moisture to evaporate? This could be a number of things, Very low atmospheric pressure so the molecules can escape easier. It could be heat that excites the molecules and allows them to escape easier. It could be a dehumidifier that causes the mopisture in the air to condense within the dehumidifier and therefore leave the surrounding air less saturated which enables the molecules to eascape easier from the wood.

    I think everbody would agree in principle that warming things up dries them out quicker (providing, and only providing that the surrounding air is not at or near saturation point) but it is the action of removing or adding the moisture that causes the wood to shrink or swell, not the method employed in doing it.

    So Andy, I hope this helps. If not i'm sure it'll be dry enough to add even more fuel to the fire.
     
  10. GR1688

    GR1688 New Member

    Crikey! this seems to have sparked of something, cheers deadonmate and the first responder (no name on it), this was the type of answer I was looking for, not a debate on the humidity, drying out etc. interesting as it was it didn't really help me much.

    My main worry was that through time, the continual contracting/expanding would have any effect on the bricks of the walls, joists etc.
     
  11. The wood dries in a number of ways but basicly its
    the water trying to return to its natural gaseous
    state
    via evaporation


    Sorry water's natural state is liquid
     
  12. Kitchen fitter, you said,

    "It is the cell structure of timber that expands and
    contracts with changes in moisture content."

    WHAT changes the moisture content from high to lower

    The change is caused by moisture leaving the timber, which it will do when the humidity in the surrounding air is low enough to absorb any free moisture that is available.
     
  13. And kitchen fitter, you say the moisture rising from
    the fence in the sun is surface moisture.

    AND what if it's in the sun all day long.


    Timber holds moisture in two ways.

    Firstly moisture is stored in the cell structure itself, ie within the cell wall.

    Secondly it is then stored in the cell itself, ie as a very small "blob".

    When timber dries the moisture in the cell, ,the blob if you like goes first, typically when this is all gone the moisture content of the timber will still be about 28%. The lose of this water has little or no effect on the dimensions of the timber.

    Moisture from the cell wall will be lost next provided that the atmosphere in which the timber is stored has a low enough humidity.

    Air drying timber can reduce its moisture content to about 10-12%, in this country it is very difficult to get lower than this by air drying. To get to this level takes time, approx 1 year for every inch thickness of timber.

    To get lower than 10% really takes a kiln, where the process involves reducing the humidity in the kiln in a controlled manner so that the moisture in the cell walls is removed without damaging the timber.

    Listen mate, the wood will dry out ALL THE WAY
    THROUGH.

    No it won't for the reasons above.

    Take your fence that has been out in the sun for several weeks and lean it against a hot radiator and watch what happens.

    HA, I have no idea what your background is but I have been working in timber trades for 30 years, including 3 years training in timber technology. I understand how timber grows and how it reacts to variations in moisture content and humidity.

    On these forums I only give advice on subjects where I have knowledge.
     
  14. Sorry GR1688.

    This great long rant has gone on.

    Don't know if anyone else has noticed, I have just re-read the OP and noticed that the question refers to chipboard flooring.

    The discussion on here has been about solid timber.

    To answer you question, don't worry its not going to cause any problems, it still has the ability to expand if it gets wet, but it is likely to turn to weetabix before it does any damage. :)
     
  15. audi-evo

    audi-evo Active Member

    kitchen fitter, how long have you been on here?
    Since when has the OP had anything to do with the ensuing rants of tradesmen who have been rained off work or who have had a job cancelled due to "unforseen circumstances?"
    lol
    No sir straight answers NOT INCLUDED!
    ;)
     
  16. kitchen fitter, how long have you been on here?
    Since when has the OP had anything to do with the
    ensuing rants of tradesmen who have been rained off
    work or who have had a job cancelled due to
    "unforseen circumstances?"
    lol
    No sir straight answers NOT INCLUDED!
    ;)

    Yeah I know, but live in hope that folks who know **** all will accept words of wisdom from those that know -I know its in vain but... :)

    [Edited by: admin2]
     
  17. Mr Kipling

    Mr Kipling New Member

    Sorry Kitchen Fitter I stand corrected. You said "Sorry water's natural state is liquid". Which is obviously true. I was refering to it trying to return to its constituent parts.
     
  18. Mr. Handyandy

    Mr. Handyandy Screwfix Select

    Take your fence that has been out in the sun for several weeks and lean it against a hot radiator and watch what happens.<<



    It will continue to dry out.

    But this is not because the sun has failed to dry it out completely, but because the sun don't always shine, and what moisture it removes during the day, can be replenished at night, when it is colder and most normally, damper.

    Still, warmth drys wood out.


    Or are you going to tell me that placing it over the radiator will NOT dry it out more ?



    Mr. HandyAndy - really
     
  19. audi-evo

    audi-evo Active Member

    "Still, warmth drys wood out"

    hunidity!
    rainforest again!
    temp 90deg, humidity 80%, wood dry out no!
     
  20. Mr Kipling

    Mr Kipling New Member

    Not if its in a realy realy hot steam room it won't, ;)
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice