16amp Socket in Garage

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by kirkdx, Jan 21, 2021.

  1. Bazza-spark

    Bazza-spark Screwfix Select

    Attitude a bit off there.

    Doesn't say MUST.

    upload_2021-1-26_11-38-49.png

    553.1.1 Every plug and socket-outlet shall comply with all the requirements of items (i) and (ii) below and,
    in addition, with the appropriate requirements of Regulations 553.1.2 to 553.2.2:
    (i) Except for SELV circuits, it shall not be possible for any pin of a plug to make contact with any live contact

    of its associated socket-outlet while any other pin of the plug is completely exposed

    Those 16A industrial plugs are designed so that 553.1.1 (i) is complied with, so are not a non compliance when used outside or in a garage.
     
  2. The Happy Builder

    The Happy Builder Screwfix Select

    The Wiring Regulations is a document that has been continually published and updated since 1882, the word “shall” in the Wiring Regulations is stating that something is a requirement, you may think the wording is archaic, but that’s how it is in both the UK and the USA the two major English speaking countries.

    “When drafting a legal document, the term shall is used to say that something must be done, as opposed to the term may which simply means that something is allowed (ie that it can be done, but does not have to be done)”
    https://www.translegal.com/dictionary/en/shall/verb/

    I have not said I would not install a 16 amp socket in a garage/workshop, but I would carefully consider what I was doing and record a non-compliance on the Electrical Installation Certificate as well as installing an interlocking switched socket to reduce potential risks.

    And yes I do see blue 16 amp sockets installed on the front of people’s houses to supply caravans, the majority of which do not comply with BS7671 The Wiring Regulations or the electricity suppliers Regulations the ESCQR, as they are connected to PME earthing systems, but that’s not really relevant to this discussion unless the original poster is planning to use his workshop sockets to supply a caravan or motorhome.

    One of these on the front wall of a house or in a domestic garage is not acceptable:
    https://www.toolstation.com/industrial-connectors-ip44/p20698

    Because kids can stick their fingers in them.
     
  3. The Happy Builder

    The Happy Builder Screwfix Select

    The Wiring Regulations cover all types of installations, not just domestic, so you have to pay particular attention to specific requirements for different locations and types of installations.
     
  4. Coloumb

    Coloumb Screwfix Select

    How can it be a non-compliance? A garage is NOT part of a household or similar.
     
  5. Bazza-spark

    Bazza-spark Screwfix Select

    Not sure who you think you are, but I have 46 years experience and spent 30+ of that in industrial.

    Kids can't stick their fingers in them as they are designed as such to BS EN 60309-2 as per table 55.1
     
  6. The Happy Builder

    The Happy Builder Screwfix Select

    For goodness sake, the Wiring Regulations BS 7671 requires plug sockets in and around domestic properties to be fitted with shutters.

    If you are going to fit sockets without shutters in and around domestic properties then you need to carefully consider how they are going to be used and secured, accepting that technically they do not comply with the regulations.

    How can that be so controversial?
     
  7. Coloumb

    Coloumb Screwfix Select


    A garage/workshop/factory floor/IT system room/restaurant etc what ever you want to call it is not a "household and similar". You don't live in any of them do you? There are not classed as habitable, ie not a "household". So how can it be a breach of regs to fit a 16a socket outside a household? You could argue a factory with a small kitchen and rest room is a "household" and then it's a breach to fit 16a sockets on the factory floor.
     
  8. Bazza-spark

    Bazza-spark Screwfix Select

    To use your own terms, I told you in #41.
     
  9. FlyByNight

    FlyByNight Active Member


    Better not fit any shaver or toothbrush sockets then. And what bout small 2A lighting sockets ...
     
  10. The Happy Builder

    The Happy Builder Screwfix Select

    We are going to have to agree to differ on the requirements of a Wiring Regulation that states “shall”.

    The live and neutral pins on a 16 amp Ceeform are 5 millimetres, going up to 10 millimetres for the 125 amps.

    So across the ranges of ratings with the plug out the sockets are IP2X because the opening is less than 12.5 millimetres, utter regardless of the IP 67 or whatever rating the manufacturer puts on them, because that is with the plug in the socket or the lid closed.

    However if you have a lamp on a table by the side of you and take the BC lamp out they have an IP rating of IP1X, because the opening is less than 50 millimetres, so there’s far more dangerous electrical equipment around people’s homes.
     
  11. The Happy Builder

    The Happy Builder Screwfix Select

  12. Bazza-spark

    Bazza-spark Screwfix Select

    There is no disagreement about the term shall.

    The disagreement is how you have interpreted that specific regulation.

    553.1.1 Every plug and socket-outlet shall comply with all the requirements of items (i) and (ii) below and,
    in addition, with the appropriate requirements of Regulations 553.1.2 to 553.2.2:
    (i) Except for SELV circuits, it shall not be possible for any pin of a plug to make contact with any live contact
    of its associated socket-outlet while any other pin of the plug is completely exposed
    (ii) It shall not be possible for any pin of a plug to make contact with any live contact of any socket-outlet within
    the same installation other than the type of socket-outlet for which the plug is designed.
    553.1.2 Except for SELV or a special circuit from Regulation 553.1.5, every plug and socket-outlet shall be
    of the non-reversible type, with provision for the connection of a protective conductor.
    553.1.3 Except where Regulation 553.1.5 applies, in a low voltage circuit every plug and socket-outlet shall
    conform with the applicable British Standard listed in Table 55.1.


    553.1.1 adds that unless 553.1.5 applies every plug and socket outlet must conform to Table 55.1 which lists industrial sockets in its last line.

    It could also be argued that 553.1.5 does apply.

    553.1.5 A plug and socket-outlet not complying with BS 1363, BS 546 or BS EN 60309-2, may be used in
    single-phase AC or two-wire DC circuits operating at a nominal voltage not exceeding 250 volts for:
    (i) the connection of an electric clock, provided that the plug and socket-outlet are designed specifically for that
    purpose, and that each plug incorporates a fuse of rating not exceeding 3 amperes complying with BS 646
    or BS 1362 as appropriate
    (ii) the connection of an electric shaver, provided that the socket-outlet is either incorporated in a shaver supply
    unit complying with BS EN 61558-2-5 or is a type complying with BS 4573
    (iii) a circuit having special characteristics such that danger would otherwise arise or it is necessary to distinguish
    the function of the circuit.


    A 13A socket run flat out will overheat. Also in a workshop/garage environment where it is a socket dedicated to a machine need to be distinguished from others clause (iii) of 553.1.5 could be applied.
     
  13. FlyByNight

    FlyByNight Active Member

  14. The Happy Builder

    The Happy Builder Screwfix Select

  15. Philip Hyde

    Philip Hyde Active Member

    But a 16a interlock socket has to be isolated before the plug can be removed??
     
  16. Coloumb

    Coloumb Screwfix Select

    Elecsa comments

    Whilst for household installations, only shuttered socket-outlets should be used (see Regulation 553.1.201), industrial socket-outlets including plugs, connectors and appliance inlets complying with BS EN 60309-2 may be used in locations outside of the dwelling where appropriate.

    https://www.voltimum.co.uk/articles/electrical-installations-garden

    not a regs breach then...
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2021
    Bazza-spark and Philip Hyde like this.
  17. The Happy Builder

    The Happy Builder Screwfix Select

    How about the preceding paragraph:
    "A socket-outlets installed in a garden must either incorporate a 30 mA RCD or be supplied from a circuit provided with additional protection by a 30 mA RCD (Regulation 411.3.3 refers)." and the illustration of a SRCD in fig 2?

    There's potentially a couple of pages of discussion discussing how reliable the guidance in that article is.
     
  18. Bazza-spark

    Bazza-spark Screwfix Select

    Yes, it must be RCD protected, but that wasn't in dispute.
     
  19. The Happy Builder

    The Happy Builder Screwfix Select

    Without detracting from the subject in hand, the SRCD shown in fig 2 doesn't provide supplementary protection as it's not listed in the Wiring Regulations.
     
  20. BiancoTheGiraffe

    BiancoTheGiraffe Screwfix Select

    Does the spring loaded plastic cover not count as the "shutter"?!

    It's definitely a functional safety feature, it fails PAT if it's missing or broken
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2021
    Bazza-spark likes this.

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