16amp Socket in Garage

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by kirkdx, Jan 21, 2021.

  1. Bazza-spark

    Bazza-spark Screwfix Select

    Another clever newbie.
     
  2. The Happy Builder

    The Happy Builder Screwfix Select

    It looks like someone could not get to sleep last night. :(

    There’s potentially a couple of pages of discussion chewing that ELECSA article over, how about the SRCD socket they show, does the 30 mA SRCD require a 30 mA RCD upfront of it to comply with the regs?
     
  3. Nomenklatura

    Nomenklatura Active Member

    Please don't try to claim that organisations like them do not have a solid track record of misinterpreting regulations and/or inventing their own.


    And who can read perfectly well.

    As can you.

    We can both read what "household" means. But only one of us then tries to claim that the definition proves that it means something else.

    Please answer this question - it really is pretty straightforward:

    If you were to install sockets in your garage, or your shed, or your summer house, or on your garden wall, for whose use would they be if not your household?
     
  4. Nomenklatura

    Nomenklatura Active Member

    It is possible for new members to be clever, or at the very least to already know things, when they join. And to be able to read as well as you can.
     
  5. Nomenklatura

    Nomenklatura Active Member

    Bazza - which of the following do you agree/disagree with, and why?

    1. 553.1.3 & 553.1.5 define what types of sockets may be used.
    2. 553.1.201 restricts the types which may be used in certain circumstances.
    3. 701.512.3 restricts the types which may be used in certain circumstances.
    4. 703.537.5 restricts the types which may be used in certain circumstances.
    5. 708.55.1.1 restricts the types which may be used in certain circumstances.
    6. 709.553.1.8 restricts the types which may be used in certain circumstances.
     
  6. Coloumb

    Coloumb Screwfix Select

    1st - You are NOT a new member. SF pete will be along shortly like every other time.

    2nd. If, for what ever reason, a situation came up in court where your unsupervised kid had stuffed his finger into a commando socket and suffered a fatality in a garage you had recently had wired up, if someone from Elecsa was called to give expert witness about why it is actually OK to put comm. sox in garages and your view was that it is not, if I was on the jury I know who I would believe. Anyway, if you don't believe it take it up with them, not me.
     
  7. Coloumb

    Coloumb Screwfix Select

    If a household includes a house and a garage that is actually a small car repair workshop, then it's still actually NOT ok to install commando sockets? How the hell would anyone be able to power any of their equipment?
     
  8. The Happy Builder

    The Happy Builder Screwfix Select

    I don’t know who the new guy is, but he’s took the pressure off me :)

    Can I just point out that I didn’t say I wouldn’t fit a 16 amp socket in a domestic garage being used as a workshop, but did say I would consider the risks and the non-compliance with the Wiring Regulations.

    I said I would install an interlocking switched socket that can be secured with a padlock.

    I purposefully did not link to the one Screwfix sells, because it’s £111 and I thought you’d all go apoplectic and throw a hissy fit with claims that it is gold plating that isn’t needed also you cannot lock it off with a padlock, so I linked to a cheaper version from another supplier that can be locked.

    https://www.screwfix.com/p/abb-switched-socket-16a-2p-e-250v-6h-ip67/4415f

    Now bearing in mind that the socket is to supply equipment like a circular saw it would be a good idea to keep it locked off anyway when not in use, I think to switch on the saw also has the provision for locking off with a padlock as well.

    The garage needs to be treated as what it is, a workshop that it full of potentially dangerous equipment.
     
  9. Coloumb

    Coloumb Screwfix Select

    it’s not a non compliance. You don’t live in garage so why do you think it’s part of a household? You think elecsa are wrong?
     
  10. FlyByNight

    FlyByNight Active Member

  11. Bazza-spark

    Bazza-spark Screwfix Select

    1 Agree
    2 Agree
    3 Agree however irrelevant as this is not a caravan site, sauna, or a marina
    4 Agree however irrelevant as this is not a caravan site, sauna, or a marina
    5 Agree however irrelevant as this is not a caravan site, sauna, or a marina
    6 Agree however irrelevant as this is not a caravan site, sauna, or a marina

    Obviously not, I read garage, not caravan site or marina or sauna.
     
  12. Bazza-spark

    Bazza-spark Screwfix Select

    Lets be honest here. If you look at the size of the aperture on a 16A socket, the only child that would be able to get a finger in there would be about 4 weeks old.

    So when your 4 week old lets himself into your garage and thinks "Oh, wonder what happens if I stick my finger in here", then opens the shutter and actually gets access, I would ask why he isn't up for an award from Mensa!

    The regulation states

    553.1.201 Every socket-outlet for household and similar use shall be of the shuttered type and, for an AC installation, shall preferably be of a type complying with BS 1363.

    Not MUST.
     
    Coloumb likes this.
  13. FlyByNight

    FlyByNight Active Member

    Having been in "Standards Meetings" the amount of time discussing exacr wording can be unbelievable. Can, Must, Should, Shall, Will, Preferably, Always, May, Might, Never, Could ... along with their inverses.
     
  14. The Happy Builder

    The Happy Builder Screwfix Select


    You are doing it again, highlighting the wrong bit :) I have edited the extract from the Wiring Regulations for you.

    553.1.201 Every socket-outlet for household and similar use shall be of the shuttered type and, for an AC installation, shall preferably be of a type complying with BS 1363.
     
  15. Bazza-spark

    Bazza-spark Screwfix Select

    I am not highlighting the wrong bit. They are shuttered with a large spring loaded flap. I am pointing out that they should PREFERABLY be 1363 type, not MUST.
     
  16. Bazza-spark

    Bazza-spark Screwfix Select

    See, the big flappy thing stuck up in the air is a shutter

    upload_2021-1-28_16-11-11.png

    Its called that cos when you let it go IT SHUTS.
     
  17. Comlec

    Comlec Screwfix Select

  18. Bazza-spark

    Bazza-spark Screwfix Select

  19. Nomenklatura

    Nomenklatura Active Member

    ?

    You seem to think that I'm the one saying I do think it's OK to to put "commercial sockets" in a domestic garage.

    The fact is I'm one of the ones saying that that contravenes the regulations.
     
  20. Nomenklatura

    Nomenklatura Active Member

    This is odd.

    Bizarre even.

    Earlier on you posted the definition of "household":

    But now you're saying "If a household includes a house and a garage that is actually a small car repair workshop".

    So given the definition of "household" which you quoted, you are saying

    "If one person living alone, or a group of people includes a house and a garage that is actually a small car repair workshop"

    or

    "If a single family, more than one family or no families in the case of a group of unrelated people includes a house and a garage that is actually a small car repair workshop"

    How does that make sense?

    You agreed that the definition of "household" defines a group of people, and now you want it to mean a group of buildings.
     

Share This Page