18th edition RCD box

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by Movieman334, Nov 24, 2022 at 3:07 PM.

  1. Movieman334

    Movieman334 Active Member

    Hi guys wanted to ask your advice , I need to get a electrical safety for certificate for my friends property as I'm helping him to get it rented .

    The electrician is saying the plastic RCD box needs to be metal and also needs surge protector , just wanted to check this is correct and anything else I should be aware of ?

    Thanks
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2022 at 3:16 PM
  2. Roys

    Roys Active Member

    I am out of date on my regs but I am fairly certain the new regs don’t apply retrospectively, so if the plastic enclosure was installed under a different edition of the regs then it is ok on that count. Otherwise 95% of households in uk would not comply to current edition of the regs.
    I am sure some of our more up to date contributors will b3 along shortly to confirm.
     
  3. Movieman334

    Movieman334 Active Member

    Thanks I assume they will apply the 18th edition to the safety certificate so would probably fail on that basis

    IMG-20221124-WA0000.jpeg
     
  4. MGW

    MGW Screwfix Select

    There are no fixed rules, the inspector can select code C2 or C3 the regulations have the design date when they start, but the EICR does not follow regulations, C2 says protentially dangerous, it does not follow any version.

    So if your home passed the regulations in force when built, and nothing has changed, it still passes. However you must give the inspector all the paperwork issued when designed, and it is very unlikely nothing has changed.

    Few home today still have tungsten lights for example, with LED lights you may cause DC to be imposed on the supply. So an inspector could fail the installation for having type AC RCD when he feels it needs type B. Never seen this done, but he could.
     
  5. Tony Goddard

    Tony Goddard Screwfix Select

    That looks a bit of a dogs breakfast anyway, wonky breakers, wonky box, lid broken off at the hinges...

    To be honest if he is renting out, he needs reliability and safety. As its such a small board I'd not mess around, I would swap it for a nice new metal cased version with an RCBo on every circuit.

    You don't have to fit an SPD, but the electrician has to advise you of its benefits and you then refuse if you don't want it. Again, with renting out, I'd have it, saves any risk of a surge damaging tenants stuff.

    When renting, best go belt and braces.
     
  6. Movieman334

    Movieman334 Active Member

    Thanks mate that's super helpful .

    So it needs an RCB and not RCD ? I don't mind 0 to spend the money to make sure that it's up-to-date and proper

    The only thing is I don't have a clue what I am doing with regard to this stuff so this guy can be telling me all sorts and I have no idea what he's talking about

    So should I ask him for an RCB metal box with surge protection
     
  7. MGW

    MGW Screwfix Select

    The odd thing is the new law does not require the inspector to be a scheme member, and even when the inspector is a scheme member often it does not cover doing the EICR or insist the inspector has professional indemnity insurance.

    So I could write out my own EICR, I don't even need to follow the C1, C2, and C3, it says I need to be able to correct errors, but it does not say I need my C&G2391 although I do have one.

    But a surveyor doing a home buyers report where it refers to the electricial condition could be considered as an EICR, it is a let the courts decide, so until some one is taken to court, there is no case law.
     
  8. Tony Goddard

    Tony Goddard Screwfix Select

    I would ask for a metal housing (thats default) with main switch, SPD and RCBo's for every circuit (an RCBo is a combined RCD/MCB, using them has the advantage if one thing goes wrong, only that circuit is impacted.
     
  9. MGW

    MGW Screwfix Select

    Just read reply, in my own home I have all RCBO's as don't want to loose a freezer full of food because there is water in outside lamp.

    I also have a SPD as it may save light bulbs blowing but that is not proved.

    As the landlord having all RCBO's can mean you can delay correcting a fault until morning rather than call some one out in middle of night because it will not reset.

    With a TT house I would want type A, but in this TN house I have type AC and have no intention to change them.
     
  10. Tony Goddard

    Tony Goddard Screwfix Select

    Surveyors have no electrical training, they are normally very circumspect in their comments on electrical installations, for example, a line from a recent survey I became involved with.

    "It is noted that some of the electrical fittings are showing their age and the condition of the wiring is unclear, it is advised that the purchasers consider engaging the services of a competent electrician to investigate and report"
     
  11. Jimbo

    Jimbo Screwfix Select

    RCBO with integrated AFFD for the two sockets circuits perhaps.
     
  12. MGW

    MGW Screwfix Select

    What @Tony Goddard says is correct, my report said there was a disused fuse box in the ceiling, only error was it was not disused, but unlike what Tony has said, he did not recomend an EICR, may be they are being more careful now, to say it is not an EICR, but as long as you can show some training, it is hard to say your not allowed to do an EICR, most firms I worked for did a sample only, and as long as no faults found likely only removed about 1/4 of the sockets if that.

    To my mind it should be like an MOT with inspectors licenced, and with published pass / fail by the goverment, but that is not the case, I have seen one case of an inspector being taken to court, but he pleaded guilty so no idea still how the courts will decide.

    And it seems not the courts to adjudicate but the county council so it will not generate case law.
     
  13. The Happy Builder

    The Happy Builder Screwfix Select

    It looks like there were originally two circuits, a 32 amp socket ring and 6 amp lights and smoke alarm circuit, but someone has split the socket ring and turned it into socket radials replacing a 32 amp MCB with two 20 amp MCBs, possibly because the was a problem and this was considered a quick fix.

    So I would assume there’s issues just from looking at the photo.

    It should have surge protection for the smoke alarms as well as the tenants equipment, the existing consumer unit really needs to be ripped out and replaced with a new metal consumer unit with surge protection and two or three RCBOs for the sockets and lighting, depending on if the socket circuit actually needs one or two RCBOs the consumer might only need a main switch, a SPD with a MCB and 2 or 3 RCBOs.
     
  14. Movieman334

    Movieman334 Active Member

    Sorry guys this is a bit tech for me , as I'm not an electrician.

    So should I ask for a metal box with SPD with a MCB and 2 or 3 RCBOs.

    I can take more photos if it helps , if I'm guided what to do
     
  15. Ind spark

    Ind spark Screwfix Select

    Ask for a metal consumer unit with SPD.
    And all rcbo's.

    If your feeling flush have all AFDD's fitted (about £90 each I think) but you dont have to unless your mates house is...
    Over 6 storeys or above 18m high,
    Or a care home
    Or a HMO.
     
  16. Movieman334

    Movieman334 Active Member

    Thanks so much I'll ask for metal box with all RCBO and surge protector it's a Victorian conversion so just 2 floors

    But was interesting to read what that device is I've never heard of it
     
  17. The Happy Builder

    The Happy Builder Screwfix Select

    upload_2022-11-26_13-23-30.jpeg

    The two MCBs supplying the sockets don’t look the same as those in the rest of the consumer unit, they are not original.

    It seems fair to assume that there was a socket ring circuit protected by a B32 and this has been split into two radials protected by the two B20 MCBs.

    This could have been a quick fix to a problem such as a cable being damaged, whoever did it may have made a good job of it or it might be a lash up. There may be a problem, then again there may not.

    Get the EICR done, then you will know what needs to be done, it could be nothing but upgrading the existing would not go amiss.
     

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