3rd Amendment Tails Entry

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by DanielQ, Oct 8, 2018.

  1. Coloumb

    Coloumb Well-Known Member

    If you have read it where is the bit that excludes swa being used as tails?

    This is what @Risteard


    No - it's a requirement of BS7671 that the Earthing conductor enter the ferrous enclosure within the same entry as the live tails.

    You liked the post so I presume you agree with the statement,

    Clearly it's wrong and I have given examples to show otherwise. You already said yourself there is no definition of tails so tails could equally include SWA.

    This has everything to do with the op, your the one trying to de-rail it. The advice given is not correct.

    Do you not think the op or anyone else reading this is not entitled to know the correct answer rather than your own opinion? Actually, to be fair, your not short on those are you.

    And for the record, your the one making the argument. I am correct and YOU are wrong. Why on earth do you think I'm going to roll over and say, hey that's cool?
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
  2. Magicspark

    Magicspark Active Member

    No one has disagreed with you that the regulation allows an SWA to enter a ferrous enclosure and a separate earthing conductor that’s been run in parallel to enter through a separate hole....What’s the point you want/trying to argue?
  3. Coloumb

    Coloumb Well-Known Member

    This this No - it's a requirement of BS7671 that the Earthing conductor enter the ferrous enclosure within the same entry as the live tails is not correct.

    If you think it's right then what reg?
  4. Magicspark

    Magicspark Active Member

    Yes it’s correct unless SWA is used and a separate earthing conductor run in parallel then its permitted to enter through a separate hole to that of the live conductors. The regulation has been quoted several times. What is your argument?
  5. Coloumb

    Coloumb Well-Known Member

    So where is this bit...

    unless SWA is used and a separate earthing conductor run in parallel


    No - it's a requirement of BS7671 that the Earthing conductor enter the ferrous enclosure within the same entry as the live tails

  6. spinlondon

    spinlondon Well-Known Member

    I really don't know why I have to keep explaining this to you. What don't you understand?

    It's this simple. You take the pvc tails out of the meter, connect them to an adaptable box, then gland your swa off the box. If you use two core then you can either use the steel as the main earth or use two core and a separate earth. If you use a separate earth then you can put this in a different hole to the main conductors. This complies with 7671 either way. Ergo sum, it is incorrect to say that the earth has to be in the same hole as the conductors for the tails. Clearly this isn't the case.

    I don't know what you mean about the distributor? What permission? If you need permission from then what law's are in place to provide the framework?

    For the last time, protection is from the cut out fuse so long as it's within the required Zs. This can be calculated by using the correct test equipment and comparing to the relevant chart showing the characteristics of the fuse in the cut out.[/QUOTE]

    I understand, that you are taking the tails to an adaptable box, I have that down pat, no need to explain further.
    I further understand that you are then taking an SWA cable to the Consumer Unit, I also have that down pat, no need to explain further.
    What I don’t understand is what any of that has to do with using SWA as tails?

    As for using a separate earth with SWA to enter a ferrousmagnetic enclosure, I suggest that you re-read the Regulation.
    You are allowed to use a separate earth in addition to the non-separate earth in cases where the non-separate earth on it’s own does not meet requirements.

    The distributer as in the person or company that produces and distributes the electricity.
    I don’t know what laws apply to when you take or use someone’s property without their permission.
    What I do know, is that using the distributer’s cut out without permission to protect all or part of a consumer’s installation is a non-compliance with BS7671.
  7. Coloumb

    Coloumb Well-Known Member

    Because if you use 2 core SWA with a parallel earth then this

    No - it's a requirement of BS7671 that the Earthing conductor enter the ferrous enclosure within the same entry as the live tails

    is incorrect. I have given one example where that is clearly not the case.

    Right, so why say this?

    No - it's a requirement of BS7671 that the Earthing conductor enter the ferrous enclosure within the same entry as the live tails

    Lets assume that we do have the correct permission and put that argument to one side. It just dilutes things.

    You either agree with what @Risteard has said or you do not. If you do then what reg specifies this? What reg specifies that I HAVE TO put everything through the same hole WHEN using TAILS.
  8. Risteard

    Risteard Well-Known Member

    If you take meter tails to your switch fuse and SWA out to the DB then the SWA is a distribution circuit and not meter tails. It's not rocket science - it actually proves that SWA is unsuitable for use as meter tails. By the way, shorthand for circuit is cct and not ctt. The word only has one "t" but two "c"s. Epic fail @Coloumb
  9. Coloumb

    Coloumb Well-Known Member

    I don't use a switch fuse in my example - I use an adaptable box. Epic fail @Risteard.
  10. Risteard

    Risteard Well-Known Member

    Then you are in breach of the Requirements of the Distributor.
  11. Coloumb

    Coloumb Well-Known Member

    According to what reg? And what law?
  12. Magicspark

    Magicspark Active Member

    Erm it’s in the the regulation that everyone has been talking about, quoted and so on. Are you than dense you can’t see it?
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
  13. Coloumb

    Coloumb Well-Known Member

    What's this? You can't even write properly.
  14. Magicspark

    Magicspark Active Member

    What you on about?
  15. Coloumb

    Coloumb Well-Known Member

    Lee, this just going back to the familiar pattern of you understanding perfectly well what I telling you yet you choose to ignore it and come back with a ***-for-tat reply just to try to wind me up. Eventually everyone here gets annoyed, reports us and we get a ban. Usually for you it's a permanent one.

    It's tedious, boring and unnecessary.

    Grow up.
  16. Bazza-spark

    Bazza-spark Well-Known Member

    Whilst there is no definition of tails in 7671 there is reference in the On-site guide section 2.

    2.1 gives general layout pictures and labels the items including consumers tails.

    Section 2.2.3 refers to meter tails:

    2.2.3 Meter tails.
    Meter tails are part of the consumer's installation and should be insulated and sheathed or insulated and enclosed within containment, for example conduit or trunking. Meter tails are provided by the installer and are the responsibility of the owner of the electrical installation. (522.10.1)

    Polarity should be indicated by the colour of the insulation and the minimum cable size should be 25mm2. The distributor may specify the maximum length of meter tails between meter and the consumer unit ins addition to the minimum cross-sectional area (see 1.3). In some case, the distributor may require an electricity isolator switch(see 2.2.4). (514.3)

    Where the meter tails are protected against fault current by the distributors cut-out, the method of installation, maximum length and minimum cross-sectional area must comply with the requirements of the distributor. (434.3(iv))

    Where meter tails are buried in walls, further protection is required. (526.101)

    So now to regulation 521.5.1

    521.5.1 AC circuits: electromagnetic effects Ferromagnetic enclosures: electromagnetic effects
    The conductors of an AC circuit installed in a ferromagnetic enclosure shall be arranged so that all line conductors and the neutral conductor, if any, and the appropriate protective conductor are contained within the same enclosure.

    The first paragraph refers to conductors inside the enclosure. It refers to all line conductors and includes the neutral and earth conductor.

    Where such conductors enter a ferrous enclosure, they shall be arranged such that the conductors are only collectively surrounded by ferromagnetic material.

    The second paragraph refers to the cables entering the enclosure. Referring to where such conductors reflects back to paragraph 1 defining all line conductors, the neutral conductor and the earthing conductor entering via the same hole.

    These requirements do not preclude the use of an additional protective conductor in parallel with the steel wire armouring of a cable where such is required to comply with the requirements of the appropriate regulations in Chapters 41 and 54. It is permitted for such an additional protective conductor to enter the ferrous enclosure individually.

    The final paragraph makes the exemption that where SWA is used, a separate earth may enter via a separate hole.

    Kind regards
    Magicspark likes this.
  17. seneca

    seneca Screwfix Select

    Just let it go Col, it's not worth the stress!
    Coloumb likes this.
  18. retiredsparks

    retiredsparks Well-Known Member

    Got my soft drink and popcorn all ready. Off you go...:)
    seneca likes this.
  19. Magicspark

    Magicspark Active Member

    The only pattern emerging here is you not being able to comprehend basic regulations, you then realize you are wrong, back pedal, become evasive with your replies, part quote posts leaving out crucial parts of the post, go off on a tangent about nothing to do with the OP, embarrass yourself, try and make out you are whiter than white and then this all repeats itself next time another subject comes up that’s over your comprehension. Maybe engage your brain before you post then you will not find yourself in this situation ;)
  20. Coloumb

    Coloumb Well-Known Member

    You seem to be talking about yourself lol stroll on lee

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