A word of warning to all kitchen fitters

I'm not sure who's who here anymore and maybe both sides are right thinking that ulterior motives are at the centre of this post but Nic99 I don't wish you to feel sorry for me because I did join up. I paid the full fee and got £25 worth of fuel with a promise that if I'm not satisfied then I can have next years membership free. Yellow pages or Yell never offered me or any of you that and if it doesn't work out then I don't have to pay next year. If all the iKBBI is doing is spamming then I don't blame them because no one's asking them the right questions on here and they're bullied out of any proper discussion. The one thing that was asked and is important to me is how do they inspect the fitters who join. The answer I got was pretty clear, the fee can't yet cover that yet but every attempt is made to make sure they recruit the best. If they don't then that will drag the name down much quicker than any slagging off they get on here.
Punters already know about them and lots more will so I decided to throw my hat in the ring, suck it and see what happens. If they allow any one in then it will be them who cause their own downfall but I'm happy with the deal I got and liked what I've read from those who run it.
Nic99 I may be feeling sorry for you in time because you didn't take the plunge but rather than influencing me not to join the slagging off posts here probably convinced me to join. Bit like bullying and if Stevie and unspoken are iKBBI which I think they are they're doing theirselfs no favours either by posting the childish stuff they have.
A question no one has asked is why did the previous posts disappear from here and have they banned the ikbbi from this forum. Not seen any posts from them for a long time.
 
"The one thing that was asked and is important to me is how do they inspect the fitters who join. The answer I got was pretty clear, the fee can't yet cover that yet but every attempt is made to make sure they recruit the best."

UTP, I would be particularly interested to hear what these attempts (to recruit the best) consist of? Do they perhaps use a form of divining? They could hold the divining rods over the prospective member's cheque, or better still, they could throw the cheque in the air, and if it stays up, then the member isn't one of the best, and doesn't get to join, and if it comes down, then he's in!

"I decided to throw my hat in the ring, suck it and see what happens."

Make sure your hat is really clean before you start sucking it!
 
kitcheneer. I think it was you in another post who said that it would probably cost a grand a year if they were to do that, (I might be wrong but it has been said)
They do have plans to do this but it would be foolish till they first attract a good membership at an affordable cost. Inspections are too costly to undertake for a start up but they had to start somewhere and to check out the credentials of a good installer is pretty easy if like me you didn't check well enough at the first few attempts.
Divining? Not a bad idea but that's exactly what many punters do when they hire an installer now. They see Joe Bloggs charging half my price and choose him, trouble is, Joe Bloggs is probably moonlighting from his unskilled job to make ends meet yet anyone can call themselves a kitchen fitter can't they.
Regulation is neccessary or we'll just all end up doing remedials for bad work and I hate remedials.
 
"kitcheneer. I think it was you in another post who said that it would probably cost a grand a year if they were to do that, (I might be wrong but it has been said)
They do have plans to do this but it would be foolish till they first attract a good membership at an affordable cost. Inspections are too costly to undertake for a start up but they had to start somewhere and to check out the credentials of a good installer is pretty easy if like me you didn't check well enough at the first few attempts."

Yes, of course it would be too expensive for them to properly inspect each prospective member's work. I accept that, and as ou say I pointed it out earlier.

But should that excuse them from doing the one thing that might give their organisation some credibility? The fact that it is too expensive? No, of course not.

Even if the ikbbi hadn't come on spamming here, and even if there wasn't serious question marks over the history and motives of the people involved in it, the whole idea of a trade organisation for kitchen fitters is a complete and total non-starter.

For a trade organisation to have any credibilty with customers it must do two things-

The first is to ensure that all its members are capable of producing high quality work (which requires inspections)
And the second is to have some kind of compensation scheme in place for if someone uses a member and that member doesn't do a good job (otherwise what would be the point of the organisation from the customer's point of view)

No trade organisation is going to be able to do either of these things on joining fees of £149 + VAT.
 
That's interesting Kitcheneer. I wonder how many installers would part with £1000 a year to join an institute that adopted a compensation scheme and inspections. At this point in time I don't think that would have much support but who knows if ikbbi get it right and attract the right members the things you advise might become a reality at a more affordable cost and if you offset that cost against the work it should bring in then if might prove to be a good investment.
As a starting point they have to try and find the best and if they don;t weed out those who can't then guys like me who pay for them to do just that, won't pay again. I think it can work and work well to benefit the good fitters so long as they don't allow poor fitters or even non fitters to join.
I have no history with the directors but it seems that a number of guys on here have. I'm pretty curious why a lot of fitters have no time for them. What did they do in the past that was so bad?
 
"I wonder how many installers would part with £1000 a year to join an institute that adopted a compensation scheme and inspections. At this point in time I don't think that would have much support"

No support at all, which was the point that I was making

"if ikbbi get it right and attract the right members the things you advise might become a reality at a more affordable cost and if you offset that cost against the work it should bring in then if might prove to be a good investment."

And how are they going to attract the "right members"? Perhaps they will have a weeding out process, how about....everybody who is willing to pay £149 + VAT is in, and everybody who isn't, isn't? That's how they are doing it at the moment, so presumably they think that's the best way forward. If it wasn't so laughable it would be very funny indeed.
 
UTP, explain how having more members makes it easier to carry out inspections. More members=more inspections =escalating costs.

A more realistic fee would be in the £500's, similar to NICEIC, that covers the cost on annual inspections etc. However that is also driven by the need for legal registrations to cover part P. (along with other organisations who have varying tariffs)

I noticed on the iKKBI website that 2 iKBBI directors visited Seaham near Sunderland to welcome on board a new member. Cost of 2 directors plus travel somewhat more than £150, hopefully they didn't need to stay overnight.

It may be that showrooms pay a higher rate than fitters.

The point being that new startups can't really afford this sort of expense.

UTP, I think the fundamental problem I have was that they breezed in here spouting off about how they were going to do wonderful things for fitters etc etc. To me it seemed that they thought that fitters didn't have the intelligence to act for them selves. Maybe most fitters who post on here regularily are self employed and self motivated and get on and do the things for themselves that iKKBI were saying they'd do for £150 of your cash .

Finally the thing that most incensed me was the post concerning contract work - -I've got lots of work for you, just join iKKBI at a reduced rate of course and away you go. And by implication But if you don't join then no work. Sounds like a unionised closed shop to me.

I do think that SFD were wrong to pull some of the earlier threads on iKKBI but I suppose it is there website. I also think that iKKBI has been done to death, though I reserve my right to post comments as I see fit on them or on anything else for that matter. :)
 
kitcheneer,
And how are they going to attract the "right members"? Perhaps they will have a weeding out process, how about....everybody who is willing to pay £149 + VAT is in, and everybody who isn't, isn't? That's how they are doing it at the moment, so presumably they think that's the best way forward. If it wasn't so laughable it would be very funny indeed.
That's an assumption and not a fact unless they confirmed it to you. If they were doing what you say they are then why are fitters I know who have quite a bit of savvy joining as well. You have your reasons to belive it's a bad thing and others have their reasons to believe it may be good. As for not answering questions like they've been accused of on here, why won;t anyone answer the qusetions about the history with these guys. What did they do in the past to upset fitters.

Ex,
If we all sat around waiting for customers to come to us then we'd have no work. Going to Sunderland isn't a crime but good publicity that is good for potential members to see how active they are in getting members,
Are the directors of Corgi or NicEic being watched as closely. It's npt an abuse of member fees but good use as I see it.
I guess that more retailers will recruit fitters who have signed up to a government backed scheme and it's not a union just a result of cowboys who ruin it for all fitters. It has been done to death I agree but it's not been done right if the right to speak on a public forum has been denied to those who can;t answer. Have they been banned if so how long will it be before members like me will also be banned. SFD had no right to remove posts without an explanation but we got none, Big Brother is a greater danger than any fears about a fitters institute.
 
I don't believe it a good thing, I don't believe that the directors are altruistic but I do beleive that I can do better things with £150.

Said enough, just can't be bothered to say any more at the moment.
 
UTP, no I have not gone away, no doubt much to the distaste of kitchenhero and his motley crew of doom mongers. You better watch what you say, they will start accusing you of being a spammer also. It appears that if your opinion is not in accordance with theirs, then it is not a worthy one 'oh we are not worthy, all hail kicthenhero and his gang'

It always makes me chuckle how they highlight your replies then put you down on the basis of what they have highlighted while not dealing with the positive issues of your statements. Very childish !

I would not waste anymore time if I was you UTP, you are flogging a dead horse with them. Like you said and I have, we have our opinion and they have theirs, leave them to it. We are confident of what we are doing thats all that matters.

They are obviously so successful at what they do aren't they, that they don't need the institute or is it that they are cr*pping themselves about the institute impacting on them ? It may be all spam from them, working for another trade organization or a retailer !

Either way, they have been on here a long time bashing ikbbi staff and members, they have got more time on their hands not being busy to ***** on and on, on a trade suppliers website. If it makes them happy let them do it and not join in anymore, they will soon get bored talking to themselves. Watch out though, they do follow you around on other posts, watching you and trying to turn your posts into anti ikbbi or spam messages.

Good luck with ikbbi mate and you stevie.
 
Unspoken,
I'm beginning to believe that your posts are more in line with those who don't support the reasons for a kitchen institute. If you do represent the ikbbi why not discuss the issues and not personalities.
If they believe they have reasons not to join you won't ever convinnce them to by continuing slagging them off.
 
UTP dont you start believing thier spam hype. Go and have a look at being screwed post i put up, they were and still are all over it.
If i did work for them do you think I would reply like that. I am just fed up with arguing the same old negative points with them.
The issues can all be answered on the ikbbi website or ring up and find out for themselves. I think you have had a go back at them as well ?
 
I think I need to respond to Unspoken if his "kitchenhero" is aimed at me.

If I have said something to upset you I'm sorry, as afr as I'm concerned all I have done is state, made a little forcefully my opinion.

I have not (to my knowledge anyway) deemed your opinion to be worth any less then mine or anyone elses.

The highlighting of quotes just helps make a point, nothing childish in that, it is a common feature on many forums. But hey ho glad it makes you chuckle.

Must agree with you, we each have our own opinions, and the discussions on iKKBI are about opinions not facts, so its unlikley that there will ever be a clear "winner".

If iKKBI works for you great spend you money where yopu want and I hope you consider it value for money.

I was always taught that when a member in a discussion resorts to criticising the other members rather than stayingwith the original subject matter. it usually means that they have lost.

Goodnight.
 
Yes thank you ex. Seeing that you like the high lighting

EX - I was always taught that when a member in a discussion resorts to criticising the other members rather than stayingwith the original subject matter. it usually means that they have lost.

Please refer to my post 'being screwed' which you and others took it upon yourselves to twist round into anti ikbbi, what happened there then ?
 
Simple really, your post coincidentally follows closely on a post from iKKBI in which they say the sheds are ganging up on fitters and then you post yours up, doesn't take much to put the two together does it?
 
i think thats called paranoia on your part!!!!

It was meant to be for other installers working for sheds and to discuss with them what to look out for. Especially concerning one that is not paying well !!
Fitters looking out for fitters !
 
In my experience, and I've been posting on here for 5 years, you'll find that very few of the fitters on here work for sheds, either on their own or have their own companies.
 
Answer me this please unspoken, when Drew et al first appeared on 'ere promoting the iKBBI, they stated it was, and I quote:-

1. "government backed" - it's not.
2. "A registered not for profit charity" - it's not. The current incarnation (the 1st was an LLP) is a Ltd company registered to a PO BOX.
3. They are fraudulently using the .org domain prefix to give the pretence of a charity/not for profit organisation.

Does that inspire you with confidence? Do you trust these rouges that their intentions are purely altruistic and they have your best interests at heart? Hmmmm do you? Are you feeling lucky?

I could go on about these fools but if they lie and deceive about the fundamental principles of their business (sorry I mean charity) at the outset it speaks volumes for their integrity.
 
What bashing?

Certainly not an apology - -nothing to apologise for
 
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