Adhesive advice for a complete newbie !

Discussion in 'Tilers' Talk' started by Blackstar, Jan 5, 2021.

  1. Blackstar

    Blackstar Member

    Hi !

    Lockdown project...

    Downstairs toilet...floor, 2.1m in a 450x450x9.5, porcelain black eddision tile with small white pattern

    Walls....3.5m in a 200x100, ceramic white metro crackled finish tile
    All finished with grey grout..

    Im a complete newbie to tiling, but im a average diyer , What is the preferred adhesive to do this job, was planning on using ready mix, but have read, that you cannot use readymix on a floor, due to drying procedure vs powder.

    Also read info that's its best to use a grey adhesive on black tiles and white on white tiles ! Will i have to buy 2 different adhesive's or can i just use 1 colour ?

    Would also be great if someone could tell me what quantity of adhesive i will need

    Will be back soon for advice on, setting out, cutting, grouting etc, etc,lol !

    Many thanks
     
  2. rogerk101

    rogerk101 Screwfix Select

    Always use powder adhesive, i.e. never use ready mix, as it's rubbish.
    I usually go down to my local tilers and ask if they have any damaged bags. Invariably they do have them.
    • If I bought the tiles from them, I usually negotiate a damaged bag of adhesive for free.
    • If I bought the tiles elsewhere, I usually pay about a fiver for a 20kg bag.
    Doesn't matter if the adhesive is grey or white ... whatever they have that's damaged. You're going to be grouting over the adhesive anyway, so who cares what colour it is?
     
  3. DIYDave.

    DIYDave. Screwfix Select

    'Lockdown Project' :) ....... there's gotta be some positives during these current times !

    Good to do your research before starting, always best to plan

    What's the floor surface that your tiling onto

    Likewise with the walls, and what condition are they in and how flat

    How are you planning on cutting the tiles - porcelain floor tiles can be incredibly hard to cut and get chip free edges

    Check the adhesive for floor is suitable for porcelain tiles as some aren't and yes, go with powdered adhesive

    Using a dark coloured adhesive may cause problems when using light coloured stone or unglazed tiles as these are more porous than say, glazed ceramic. Staining or shadowing on the face may occur so not worth taking the chance with these type tiles

    One final point,,,,,,, don't mention, utter, think, debate, discuss, ask, or anything related to the following 3 letters - PVA :eek:............ avoid in all forms when tiling (you have been warned) :D
     
  4. FlyByNight

    FlyByNight Screwfix Select

    My preference is ARDEX X7 Has a good life once mixed, top quality adhesive, can mix as little or as much as you need, in white or grey ... and their website has a calculator:

    https://ardex.co.uk/product/ardex-x-7/

    Then use an Ardex Flex FS or FL grout - FS up to 4mm gap, https://ardex.co.uk/product/ardex-flex-fs/ or for 3-15 mm joints use the FL https://ardex.co.uk/product/ardex-flex-fl/ again with a calculator available. 35 different colours available including about 7 different grey tones from white through to black https://ardex.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Grout-Silicone-Colour-Guide-2018-FPS-Web-2.pdf there are also several matching silicone colours too.
     
  5. Blackstar

    Blackstar Member


    Concrete floor, plaster walls all in condition as house is only 10 years...all to be primed with SBR...there you go...not mentioned p.v.a...and i know what you mean on PVA as I've read quite a lot on that as well lol

    Planning on cutting porcelain with 4 inch angle grinder with diamond blade or would it be best to buy a cheap cheap wet tile cutter, although I've got to cut around toilet waste and i don't how well they cut curves, in fact... will a electric wet tile cutter even cut porcelain ?
    Will cut the ceramic with one of those cheapo push down handle type cutter, i don't know the proper name for those !

    Would you recommend the white no- nonsense adhesive from screwfix ?
     
  6. FlyByNight

    FlyByNight Screwfix Select

    Don't cut corners on your own house. No-nonsense might be fine but given what you are spending overall the extra few pounds will be next to nothing.

    Ardex - my choice, and look at Ardex P51 primer.
     
  7. rogerk101

    rogerk101 Screwfix Select

    You can cut any porcelain tiles with chip-free cuts with a wet cutter - doesn't matter if it's a cheap one, as long as the diamond disc is of good quality. With a regular dry angle grinder, you'll really struggle to get the cuts chip free. You can get close to chip free, but your have to remove the back of each cut first and then edge your way slowly to the front but only using the part of the cutting disc that drives towards the rear of the tile. If you use the other side of the disc's rotation, you'll definitely get chipping.
     
    Blackstar likes this.
  8. Blackstar

    Blackstar Member


    This has got good reviews...

    Worth a punt ? as its only going to be used for this job..

    https://www.toolstation.com/qep-dia...wC8aNBI9FTa9L7kBqSTpSBoCnigQAvD_BwE#full-desc
     
  9. rogerk101

    rogerk101 Screwfix Select

    Yes. It's meant to do the job you need it for. If it doesn't, then simply return it. Nothing to lose, but potentially something to gain.
     
  10. FlyByNight

    FlyByNight Screwfix Select

    I have the next model up - from SF although no longer stocked and it is OK. You need to be careful to ensure you set the guide correctly and at 90degrees.
     
  11. Blackstar

    Blackstar Member

    Will a 2mm gap be Ok for a 450x450mm floor tile ?
     
  12. rogerk101

    rogerk101 Screwfix Select

    Yes. With well prepared background, top quality tile adhesive, and flexible grout, it should be fine.
     
  13. Blackstar

    Blackstar Member

    Ok thanks for that...

    Now the million dollar question...

    Do i tile floor or walls first lol

    I was going to do floor first, but have read conflicting info, that you should do walls first, but then I'm not sure how you would fit Floor tile up to wall without it looking carp...

    Did read something that made a lot of sense though...

    Batten, tile up, tile floor, then tile last wall row onto floor tile...although I'm not quite sure if the last wall tile row would be a full tile or cut down ?
     
  14. rogerk101

    rogerk101 Screwfix Select

    There is no difference between tiling the walls or floor first and it's got nothing to do with whether you cut the bottom row of tiles or not.
    Both the floor and the walls need to be planned down to the last centimetre (ideally millimetre). Yo need to know exactly where each tile is going to go and which tiles are going to need to be cut, as you really want symmetry but without slivers.
    Tiling is 90% planning and 10% implementation.
     
    Muzungu likes this.
  15. FlyByNight

    FlyByNight Screwfix Select

    As rogerk101 says plan everything.

    I prefer the floor tiles to go under the wall tiles - always looks better. You can do the walls except the bottom row first, then the floor and finally finish. That means, especially with messy workers, that you don't drop adhesive or tiles, on te floor tiles and do not run adhesive into the surface.
     
  16. Blackstar

    Blackstar Member

    Thanks for that, like you say planning is everything !

    So I've decided to tile the floor first, so i can get a exact measurement from the new floor, so i can start the wall with a full tile from the floor, if i do it the other way round, i.e tile wall first...i could be struggling with the measurement from the floor as i don't know the what the level of the floor would be with the adhesive, so it would be difficult to work out what cut i would have on my first row of wall tile...if that makes sense...

    I will cover newly laid floor with the old carpet, while im tiling the walls, so that should hopefully prevent it from damage...

    I do have a couple of questions though..

    What thickness for the adhesive, and is it possible to cut a curve with a cheap electric wet tile cutter ?

    Many thanks !
     
  17. rogerk101

    rogerk101 Screwfix Select

    Be careful that doing this does not leave you with a silly looking sliver at the top where the wall meets the ceiling.
    For example, a full tile at the bottom may result in a 10mm sliver at the top and that would look unprofessional. Much better to have a 300mm tile at the bottom and a 160mm tile at the top.

    Use a toothed tile adhesive spreader. That dictates the thickness of the adhesive.
    It's pretty hard to cut a curve with a wet tile cutter ... even one with a large radius curve. Much better to do it with an angle grinder fitted with a diamond cutter.
     
  18. stevie22

    stevie22 Screwfix Select

    I did my son's bathroom and kitchen in metro. I used a soldier course at the top to avoid the slivers:looks great.
     
  19. Blackstar

    Blackstar Member

    Im only tiling halfway up the wall, so will be finishing with a full tile anyway !

    My Floor tile is a 450x450 and it looks like its 4 separate tiles, the spacer gap betweenon tiles is 1mm, is it ok to use 1mm tile spacers when i put the tiles down ?
    I did read somewhere its supposed to be min 3mm on floors, i think it wouldn't look right with even a 2mm gap, when its 1mm on the tile....
     
  20. rogerk101

    rogerk101 Screwfix Select

    1mm is tight, and the grout may not survive the movement of the subfloor with changes in temperature and humidity. I would not use less than 3mm if it were my floor. You only want to do this once, so don't take any risks.
     

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