Aerial install issues

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by Wonkytonk, Oct 30, 2022.

  1. Wonkytonk

    Wonkytonk New Member

    You've probably seen endless threads like this but here is another one... :p So, I bought a new aerial and amp as I went from getting 160+ channels to.. none. Figuring the problem was my old amp and tri-beam aerial not having a 4/5G filter causing a problem I figured I'd just replace everything as it's all pretty old gear at this point. I bought a Labgear log aerial and Labgear 4 way splitter.

    Links;
    https://www.screwfix.com/p/labgear-4-way-outdoor-splitter/89218
    https://www.screwfix.com/p/labgear-log-tv-aerial/797jr

    Before doing anything I put new ends on the coaxial, even just sitting the new aerial slightly out the upstairs window the TV immediately found 86 channels and that's the aerial in a terrible place for signal. So next I added the amp running it from the aerial to "In" and connecting the TV coaxial to the far left DC Pass "out" (this is the "live" one) and this is where the problem comes in... no signal at all even when attempting to re-tune. Any ideas?

    Troubleshooting Done:

    Checked each coaxial running to the TVs directly connected to the aerial - No problems
    Replaced the coaxial running from the aerial to the amps "out" - No difference
    Re-checked every coaxial fitting numerous times - Can't find any issues
    Run just a single coaxial from the amp via the "live" DC Pass "Out" - Still no signal :mad:

    Basically as long as I don't use the amp I can get a signal but the instant I connect the amp I get nothing. I even reconnected the old amp thinking maybe the new amp was a dud but the exact same thing happens. Am I going completely mad here or am I missing something obvious?

    All assistance is massively appreciated because I'm doing all this to get away from crappy Sky entirely and get some nice premium paid channels instead :D
     
  2. FlyByNight

    FlyByNight Screwfix Select

    Aerial to Amp OUT - that is wrong. The aerial connects to Amp IN.

    Where is the PSU connected? To get the gain needed to overcome the losses caused by spliting the amplifier inside needs power - it claims 11dB gain.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2022
  3. Wonkytonk

    Wonkytonk New Member

    That's what I'm saying FlyByNight, maybe I didn't explain that well enough trying to explain everything. To try and be clearer, the coaxial running from the aerial is connected to Amp "In", and running the TV coaxial from the far left amp "Out" socket (this is the "live" socket) to provide the amp with power. As is my understanding of this particular amp it takes its power from the coaxial as its line powered, not mains.

    EDIT: Wait a sec I think I've just realised the issue, the amplifier still requires a 5v power supply plugged into the mains. Thanks FlyByNight for prodding my brain into gear

    Labgear didn't make that clear anywhere, the amplifier in fact didn't come with any instructions at all.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2022
  4. MGW

    MGW Screwfix Select

    Atmospheric storms can cause high voltages which can destroy any pre-amp, does not need to be a direct hit, but in the main a mast head amp most likely to fail due to no power, we tend to fit braid breakers to stop the chance of getting a belt when touching the lead, but these also stop DC to power the mast head amp.

    Testing a mast head amp is not easy, and I know form experience getting an aerial installer in does not always help, they put their meter on the aerial to test it, but their meter is sending to 5 to 12 volt DC needed to power the mast head amp, so an intermittent fault with power supply can be missed.

    It was easy with my slow scan TV as I was transmitting, so any fault would cause the signal to be reflected and the voltage standing wave ratio would show on the meter as incorrect, but with TV we are only receiving, so a wrong wall plate or faulty power supply is easy to miss.
     
  5. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Screwfix Select

    Hi, Your TV or 'Video Recorder' etc may well be able to supply the 5 volt line supply, my Manhattan t2r 500gb Freeview HD Recorder can.
     
    MGW likes this.
  6. MGW

    MGW Screwfix Select

    Yes my TV can be configured to supply 5 volt, but not the default setting.
     
  7. Wonkytonk

    Wonkytonk New Member

    My TV is a TCL 50P615K, as far as I know there isn't a way to configure the built-in TV receiver to supply the 5v but if someone knows how to configure it to supply the 5v let me know otherwise I'll be heading to screwfix in the morning to buy a Labgear 5A F-Plug Amplifier Power Supply (80459). It's time for bed for me here in the UK ;)
     
  8. Wonkytonk

    Wonkytonk New Member

    Ok, so I bought another 12v PSU for the masthead amp, increased the length of the copper core on the coaxials and generally redone all of the connections and... still nothing. Annoyingly the extra long connectors seem to have stopped the aerial from getting any signal at all now even with cutting the amp out completely so.. anyone have any ideas? I can get some images if that would help any.

    General Setup:

    Aerial running to Amp "IN"
    TV running from DC Pass "OUT"
    PSU: TV coaxial to "Amp", coaxial from PSU "TV" to Antenna/Cable input (as it's labelled on the TCL TV)

    Maybe it's me being dumb but I can't see where the problem is here everything should be working as far as I can see\tell.
     
  9. Teki

    Teki Screwfix Select

    It should not protrude beyond the end of the F-plug i.e. cut it flush.

    On the power supply, I suspect you need to connect your TV to the TV terminal and the DC Pass Out to the AMP terminal.

    Failing that, photos of your setup would help.
     
  10. Wonkytonk

    Wonkytonk New Member

    Here's some images, no coaxial core copper is exceeding the end of any fittings so there shouldn't be any problems there I just stripped a bit more of the sheathing so everything is now flush with the plugs, before they were shorter so thought maybe that was the issue with one or more fitting not making good contact.
     

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  11. FlyByNight

    FlyByNight Screwfix Select

    Head scratching ...

    Everything now looks wired correctly.

    Try leaving it as is, except the link from TV to Amplifier - connect to outputs 2 then 3 then 4.

    If that all fails, maybe the amplifier is faulty ... Labgear Tech support 01234 263760
     
  12. Wonkytonk

    Wonkytonk New Member

    Thanks FlyByNight I'll try the other outputs in case something weird is going on there. I tried the old amplifier (which is a 9db labgear) and got the same results so I don't think the new amp is faulty its truly mystifying. I'm beginning to wonder if the TCL TV is getting signal overload now somehow although that feels unlikely to me with the aerial being a middle of the road 8db and the splitter/amp only being 11db (I'm in Horsham so the primary tower for me is Rowridge). The only thing I've done different compared to the old ends because if I'm not mistaken it's no longer necessary is I've not pulled any of the external copper shielding around the coaxial down to let it make contact with the fittings it's all snipped clean.
     
  13. Resmond

    Resmond Active Member

    Not too hot on tv but if it was audio and youve already tried a different amp id think it was a grounding/ cabling issue
     
  14. dray

    dray Screwfix Select

    I had a similar problem and eventually bought a tester similar to below so that I could see the signal at each point and narrow down the problem. Mine was at the cable 'F' connections which were not correct. good investment after buying various amps and splitters etc . Hope you get it sorted.
    58244
     
  15. Wonkytonk

    Wonkytonk New Member

    Funny enough I'm starting to think grounding could be an issue as well, its old coaxial cable so maybe the entire system is shot and that needs replacing as well. Thanks Dray, I'll probably pick one of those up because this issue is getting absurd now visually everything checks out and I even moved the aerial outside to the garage roof and with everything connected I still can't pick anything up and thats with testing 2 different TVs now to rule out something being wrong with the TCL.

    Out of curiosity, is there any minimum distance a masthead amp should be from the aerial? From what I know I've always thought the closer the better.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2022
  16. Wonkytonk

    Wonkytonk New Member

    Well after messing around with things some more I'm giving up on attaching the amplifier near the aerial and will instead install it in the loft in hopes moving it further away from the aerial will stop it from cutting the signal out completely. Without the Amp I'm now sitting at 90% signal and 100% integrity, it doesn't help the other two TVs but it's somewhere to start. Anyone had issues with the Amp and needing to be moved further away to resolve them before?
     
  17. dray

    dray Screwfix Select

    I know the cost of this is adding up but have you thought about ditching the amp and going direct from aerial to a powered splitter/booster then straight out to all TV's.

    I used the SLX range and found it to be excellent for communal aerial coming in on third floor, then into splitter/booster and then out to the bedroom at other end of the flat. I used the two way below but you get the idea from the site.
    https://www.philex.com/products/product-categories/slx-aerial-amplifiers.
     
  18. FlyByNight

    FlyByNight Screwfix Select

    The OP already has a "splitter" - just designed for mast instals rather than indoor.

    @Wonkytonk As I mentioned before, give their Tech Support a call.
     
  19. Wonkytonk

    Wonkytonk New Member

    I hadn't considered that dray I was thinking more about perhaps adding some of those variable gain amp adapters (I forget what their called) just because I already have the other stuff and today ordered a 100m reel of new coaxial as the current stuff the copper braid shielding is all broken up so while it's working right now it also seems like another problem waiting to happen so might as well do it while I'm doing everything else. I ended up ordering the coaxial from the link below, seems like the best all-rounder.

    https://www.screwfix.com/p/time-rg6-black-1-core-round-coaxial-cable-100m-drum/495jy

    @FlyByNight that will be my next step after replacing the coaxial as it doesn't seem like it's in great shape any more - its been up there 20+ years.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2022
  20. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Screwfix Select

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