Anyone watching

That isn't what I'm saying.

What I'm saying is, given the choice between Macron and Le Pen, all the usual suspects on this forum either refused to answer or said Le Pen.

And no quite possibly about it - there are three individuals on here (down to two at the moment) who were either blatantly - offensively - racist, or let slip comments that showed their racist ignorance. The rest of the u-s have never EVER challenged them on this, and spray likes at every other opportunity.

There are direct and undeniable parallels with Trump supporters over 'there' and Brexit supporters over here. And the connection between Banks and Bannon (and Farage etc) is also undeniable; their ideologies are the same and they have worked together to this common cause - the break up of the EU and nationalism & tribalism in their individual countries.

Not every Leaver is a racist, but virtually every racist is a Leaver. As are the least educated. And those associated with extreme right-wing, nationalist & Nazi factions.

And that doesn't give you pause?

That doesn't make you stop and wonder for a second what this is actually all about? You'd still march to the edge with these folk but tell us and yourself it's 'ok' because you ain't a racist or xenophobe?

I think you are trying to justify your decision to yourself. That's fine - fire away. But I'm not convinced; it just doesn't add up. "Hey, I'm not a racist or xenophobe, but I think I'll just toddle along with this rabid group over here towards our mutual aims...".

 

RS too?

That'll be 4 then...

 

No you didn't.

I believe my statement to be utterly true. You are free to try and tell me it isn't. That's all you have to do - not couch it in "I've been banned for..."

 

See the bunch of twits caught posting that Grenfell bonfire video, use ever sinew in your brain and tell me how they almost certainly voted.

Before you blow a fuse, I am obviously not saying that every Leaver would have done such a heinous thing, but that the sort of person who would do such a thing - or would have chortled at the video (I bet many did) - belong to one of the two types of folk I have always maintained exist.

Are these folk empathetic? Do they want a safer kinder world? Do they want to 'get along', negotiate, find mutually beneficial ground, make mutually beneficial deals, trade freely, stop war, be a fellow human being?

No, they don't.

They want to feel as tho' they are superior. They want to negotiate like Trump does - impost sanctions first, impose import duties first, build up the military, lie, create divisions, threat, blag, puff up their chests, lie, blame all wrong-doing on everybody and everything that opposes them, lie, piddle on the worse off, excuse extremist behaviour from their side, lie about 'fake news' whilst propagating it, you get the idea?

And as I've always said - it's Trump supporters over there, and Leavers over here. And, again, not one u-s on here has said they wouldn't vote for Trump if they were American; they simply evaded the question.

I know how you would vote. As you would in France. And Hungary. And Poland. And Germany.

Two types of world out there, populated by two types of person. One still behaves as in the 15th century - and mid-20th.

This EU issue is not about 'trade', never was, never will be. It's about two ideologies.


It isn't even ok to behave like Trump when you have the power to do so as the world's strongest country, but it's completely nuts to behave like that from a position of weakness.

 

There you are getting all hypothetical again. Taking no account of what influences an individual would have been subjected to, had they been born in France, America, Hungary, Germany etc,etc. Pointless.

 

Like manna from heaven, JJ comes along and proves my point.

Whilst being oblivious to the fact.

You are well unintentionally funny, JJ.

 

You’re right there. Was never about trade. The EU is all about “control”. They want to control every facet of people’s lives.

 

Fib.

Tell us what our fav plumber says about this, JJ. You know - our honest fav plumber who is open and honest.

 

You still can’t see the wood for the trees. Had you been born in America, France, or any one of countless other foreign countries, what social, cultural, influences would you have been exposed to? What if, you’d been born in Birmingham instead of Scotland ? Starting to see my point yet ? What if you’d been born into royalty instead ? It’s all about what if, not “ you’d still vote the same way “

 

So, you cannot even speculate how you'd vote if you were an American right now?! Hmmmm.

And you don't want to 'fess what our fav honest plumber recognises as the main honest reason for the Leave vote? Hmmmmm.

That's weird, because I can answer both of these for you with nigh-on 100% certainty.


Go on, Tyro - 'like' my post. Go on - 'cos at least I'm being honest.

 

Who could possibly “ speculate” on their voting preference had they been subjected to completely different social , cultural and class influences ? Your question is absolutely pointless. It’s like me asking you how you’d have voted, had you been born and brought up in Hull. You just can’t say, because, you haven’t been born nor brought up in Hull. You just don’t get it do you ?
Having not been in contact with Tom to find out his views, I’m not prepared to “ speculate” on his personal thoughts either.

 

Yup, I get it.

And so do you.

Look in to my eyes, just my eyes, nowhere else, not up there, just in to my eyes.

If you, JJ, you as YOU are now, that is the usual suspect JJ, the would-be nice guy until youknowwhat, if YOU were an American YOU with the American franchise - that is YOU in every sense who YOU are NOW 'cept American with the right to vote over there right now as YOU, were to actually place a vote as YOU, right now, as YOU, how would YOU vote.

(I wonder if that is clear enough to prevent another diversion... )

 

Despite not having been brought up in the USA I can say without doubt that I would not have voted for Trump.

 

Honest answer, I can’t possibly say , unless you tell me what state of the US I was hypothetically born in. We’re my parents working , middle or upper class ? What education did I get ? Did I graduate from an Ivy League college with a first class masters degree in physics or computer science ? Or did I drop out of mainstream education ? Do I live in a posh neighbourhood, or do I live in a neglected area ? Do I live in a mainly Democrat voting state or do I live in a mainly Republican voting state ?
As you can see, all these influences on my life might just affect my voting preference, but don’t let that get in the way of the pointless “ point” you think you’re trying soooooooo hard to make.
Diversion,,, no I don’t think so.

 

I'm pretty certain I'm with you on that one, Chippie.

 

Shall I remove the hook from JJ now? The squirming is really getting me down.


It's ok, JJ - we'll let it pass. Enough has been said.

 

Utterly pointless.

 

I couldn't disagree more, JJ; I think the point has been made. And nailed fully home with your assistance.