As Dawkins said this morn.

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Jackoftrades said:
The big desicions a country makes, ok.

They dont get much bigger than what political party gets in surely.

If the referenda was a big desicion, then why wasnt it discussed more in depth about what exactly was involved and its implications ( I mean that for either side). As it stands it was just a way of the Tories getting support to get into power.

The country had a referendum on a big decision? Ok, tell me what the result means ?
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It means we are leaving the European Union
 
SWBUILDERS said:
It means we are leaving the European Union
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I was expecting that.

That was what the result of the vote was.

But on what terms? What did the vote decide? Nobody knows. Thats how unimportant the referendum was.

Nobody was given anything to actually vote for, even though it was voted for!

Which proves the point. The public did not have enough brains or information to have a referendum.
 
Jackoftrades said:
The country had a referendum on a big decision? Ok, tell me what the result means ?
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Well, in simple terms , it means we're leaving the EU. In more in depth terms it means " We will not be absorbed by a Federal State, We will not go quietly into the night. We will assert our independence and right to exist as the United Kingdom. June 23rd 2016 was our Independence Day." ;););)
 
Jackoftrades said:
Which proves the point. The public did not have enough brains or information to have a referendum.
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Nah, all it proves is that us public were fed lie after lie..... By both sides,,,, because no one knows what will happen once our notice to quit the EU comes to pass.. Let's face it Jack, it ain't gonna be the end of the bloody world. Start having a bit of faith in your country.. Heck, have a bit of faith in yourself. Stop thinking it's all doom and gloom.. Say to yourself daily from now on "I reject Project Fear ." Our destiny will belong to the British nation, not to some faceless bureaucrats in Brussels. ;);)
 
Jackoftrades said:
The public did not have enough brains or information to have a referendum.
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Does this mean you believe another human being, mainly an MP (who just happens to be paid a lot more than you) has the brains and information to deny you that same referendum? Christ sake.
 
Jackoftrades said:
I was expecting that.

That was what the result of the vote was.

But on what terms? What did the vote decide? Nobody knows. Thats how unimportant the referendum was.

Nobody was given anything to actually vote for, even though it was voted for!

Which proves the point. The public did not have enough brains or information to have a referendum.
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Brexit has now become that bet on a game of pool you have with your mate, after you beat him he says he wants a rematch because he was playing old rules
 
joinerjohn1 said:
Nah, all it proves is that us public were fed lie after lie..... By both sides,,,, because no one knows what will happen once our notice to quit the EU comes to pass.. Let's face it Jack, it ain't gonna be the end of the bloody world. Start having a bit of faith in your country.. Heck, have a bit of faith in yourself. Stop thinking it's all doom and gloom.. Say to yourself daily from now on "I reject Project Fear ." Our destiny will belong to the British nation, not to some faceless bureaucrats in Brussels. ;);)
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The vote has been and done.

i accept the result, whatever it actually ends up being.

But it should never have been a referendum. It is why we have MP's.
 
Jackoftrades said:
The vote has been and done.

i accept the result, whatever it actually ends up being.

But it should never have been a referendum. It is why we have MP's.
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If that were the case there's a good chance that UKIP would be in power, or at least be the opposition.
 
Which points would they be?

Is that people don't have "enough brains" one of them?
 
P J Thompson said:
Which points would they be?

Is that people don't have "enough brains" one of them?
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Pretty much yes its 1 of them. Coupled with lack of credible information.

Do you not look around you and think the same? How many people do you know honestly that think things through fully before deciding, pretty much on anything. Would you honestly put your future in the hands of the masses?
 
I don't know where you live but I've been round pretty much all of this big island and I'll unequivocally state that the vast majority of folk I've met have "enough brains" to make decisions.
Perhaps you live in Southampton? I've never been there on principle but as they all support the scummers they must be pretty thick. I'd certainly deny scummers the vote till they see the light and switch allegiance to Pompey.

But the other side of your 'point', credible information, I totally agree with...as i've said many times before.

I'll repeat, this isn't about dumb people not being able to think, it's about a culture. A culture where the politicos and media lie through their teeth, where the education system does nothing to foster social conscience or political nouse, where post Thatcher it's dog eat dog, where self image is king and self confidence is trampled....I could carry this list on for a good while.

But none of this is down to people being too thick. Apart from the scummers.

I actually worry about people who think everyone else is thick!

And yes, I would rather us masses led than be led by fools who sign off on Trident, bail out greedy and lying banks, invade other countries, have no foot in reality....another list that could go on and on....and a lot of it feeds into the other list!
 
And on topic....a culture where zealous empathy lacking biologists are held up as being political experts when they make the kind of undemocratic statements that people like your good self and DA support!

Soz DA :p
 
joinerjohn1 said:
Does this mean you believe another human being, mainly an MP (who just happens to be paid a lot more than you) has the brains and information to deny you that same referendum? Christ sake.
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You are not going to accept this for a nano-second, I know, but most MPs are very bright, very talented, and very capable. What's more, they are driven by the correct desires to do good for this country and the people within it - regardless of whether they may be misguided in their approach to that aim...:rolleyes:

I think I am reasonably bright and informed (stop it), so put what abilities I do have to use in a school governing body, for example. I could not, however, do an MP's job justice to any appreciable degree. I say that because I have known - and know of - quite a few MPs over the decades and I have a reasonable handle on their calibre.

There are exceptions, of course, especially when there's a huge turnaround in MPs such as when the SNP had their phenomenal success. That will almost always lead to a bunch of second-rate (by that I mean 'normal'...) folk being placed in a position they cannot do justice to.
 
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P J Thompson said:
I don't know where you live but I've been round pretty much all of this big island and I'll unequivocally state that the vast majority of folk I've met have "enough brains" to make decisions.
Perhaps you live in Southampton? I've never been there on principle but as they all support the scummers they must be pretty thick. I'd certainly deny scummers the vote till they see the light and switch allegiance to Pompey.

But the other side of your 'point', credible information, I totally agree with...as i've said many times before.

I'll repeat, this isn't about dumb people not being able to think, it's about a culture. A culture where the politicos and media lie through their teeth, where the education system does nothing to foster social conscience or political nouse, where post Thatcher it's dog eat dog, where self image is king and self confidence is trampled....I could carry this list on for a good while.

But none of this is down to people being too thick. Apart from the scummers.

I actually worry about people who think everyone else is thick!

And yes, I would rather us masses led than be led by fools who sign off on Trident, bail out greedy and lying banks, invade other countries, have no foot in reality....another list that could go on and on....and a lot of it feeds into the other list!
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I live in Devon, and I'll unequivocally state that the vast majority of folk I've met do not have "enough brains" (your term - I mean information, knowledge, critical faculties) to have made a justified decision on Brexit.

What's more, they don't care about their lack of info - their decision was made on the simplest and most simplistic of issues, with no attempt whatsoever to explore the pros and cons or use critical analysis. Often - very - it was driven by you know what.

I can give you a number of examples, but here's one to get on with: "We will not be absorbed by a Federal State, We will not go quietly into the night. We will assert our independence and right to exist as the United Kingdom. June 23rd 2016 was our Independence Day."

I rest my case.
 
"enough brains" is actually Jack's term, DA. Hence my placing it in quotation marks.

I used to live in Devon, not too far down the A361 from you and I certainly noticed the majority having "enough brains".

Again though, perhaps not enough credible info etc....

As you had the time to address a post I made to Jack, I'd be very interested in your thoughts on the post I addressed to you on the last page :) (ETA, page before last now)
No biggy if you don't have time though. I already have my own answer, am just interested in yours too :)
 
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