Average speed cameras - Hmmm....

Discussion in 'Just Talk' started by WillyEckerslike, Oct 14, 2019.

  1. sospan

    sospan Screwfix Select

    You will probably find that the cameras are set around 50 mph or even slightly more.

    Typically you would get one ticket as it would be deemed as the same incident. However, if you drove down the same road several times in a day and got caught each time they would be deemed as separate offences. What normally happens then is that a person is summonsed and they appear in magistrates court and some justification is applied - the cameras were recently fitted and then the bench only take a single offence into account.
     
  2. longboat

    longboat Screwfix Select

    Here's a nice way to fob off a perfectly legitimate FOIR.
    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...fines_and_penalties_from_driving_offences.pdf

    Pretend the request was asking 'where' the revenue collected through the use of fixed and mobile speed cameras was spent, rather than what the total revenue collected amounts to.
    They should have simply replied;
    'We would rather not reveal such sensitive information thank you very much'.
    Good day!
     
    Deleted member 11267 likes this.
  3. sospan

    sospan Screwfix Select

    They do, if you look at the PDF link, just short of £4m from Traffic cameras. However, the model is slightly different in Wales where the systems are run by "GoSafe" and revenue is used to fund driver education courses and maintain the system.

    Since the local Police forces across the UK have to support all the costs in issuing penalty tickets but get nothing in return the last thing they want to do is "revenue raising" for Central Government. If there were the alleged "targets" set for issuing penalty tickets, coppers could start their shift at 8 am, fill their quota and had breakfast by 9 am and job done for the rest of the day.
     
  4. longboat

    longboat Screwfix Select

    Can you provide a link to the specific PDF document you refer the £4m figure from, i can't see it.
     
  5. peter palmer

    peter palmer Screwfix Select

    Of course its a revenue raiser, speed awareness courses only popped up when the rules were changed and all revenue from speeding fines/FPNs was redirected to central government instead of the local police forces. They will do anything they can to keep their grubby little hands on the dirty cash flow.
     
    Deleted member 11267 likes this.
  6. sospan

    sospan Screwfix Select

  7. sospan

    sospan Screwfix Select

    After all, it has only been 20+ years since the were a widespread option :rolleyes:
    And never had anybody moan about having to sit in a class room instead of having points on a licence.
     
  8. sparky steve

    sparky steve Screwfix Select

    Personally i fail to see how speed/safety cameras actually improve road safety?

    Because the driver who has passed a camera far exceeding the speed limit has caused the damage when he collides with another road user or pedestrian etc. What has that achieved when the ticket for the speed offence drops through the offending drivers letterbox? The damage has already been done! You could therefore pass a 30mph camera at whatever speed you choose, lets say 60mph. The camera will activate & record the excessive speed! & no doubt a prosecution will follow, but i fail to see how it actually improves safety?
     
  9. b4xtr

    b4xtr Active Member

    And you get Tea/Coffee and Biscuits :)
     
  10. sospan

    sospan Screwfix Select

    You get to watch videos as well - not bad for £94 !
     
  11. sospan

    sospan Screwfix Select

    Speed cameras are installed in several instances accident black spots, locations where there as been a high level of excess speed (Evo triangle) even though there may have been relatively few black spots and then there is the congestion control

    For the majority of motorists speed limit signs don't work. Motorists either don't see them (mainly they don't register) them or believe they can go faster without any issue. Speed cameras register higher with the motorists than speed signs and those that deliberately speed it slows them down to a more acceptable speed - 57 mph in a 50 limit is much, much better than 70+. The cameras won't prevent accidents but it all about reduction.

    However, there is the ripple and phantom effects. Where collisions are caused by drivers applying the brakes rapidly before speed cameras causing vehicles behind to brake unexpectedly and a collision takes place several hundred metres away from a camera. The other is a phantom camera reported by Sat Navs, where you can have a column of cars driving down a clear road too close together, one Sat Nav reports that they are approaching a regular location of mobile enforcement unit, so brakes come on hard. The drivers behind aren't expecting the vehicle in front to brake ......

    Traffic calming cameras are there for two reason - to even out the traffic but also accident reduction to try and reduce the number of incidents where traffic travelling at high speed meet stationary traffic and avoid drivers accelerating and decelerating hard as traffic flows.

    Issuing a penalty is as I mentioned earlier is all about the concentration and attitude. If someone receives a fixed penalty notice, the majority of people see it as a wake up call and change their behaviour at least in the short term. If they receive a second, then it starts to become more serious and begins affecting insurance prices as well. With the increase in numbers of drivers on the roads without a license or insurance, it is another way to get drivers whom shouldn't be on the road onto different forms of travel.

    There is an old saying in the Police that the easiest way to improve driving standards is to remove seat belts and air bags and have a permanent 150mm metal spikes protruding from the steering wheel and dashboard. Having driven a test car fitted with rubber spikes on an off road course they are a very effective deterrent :D
     
  12. No matter which way you try to spin it sospan, it is a cash cow revenue raiser.
    The link you left showed a nice profit and a lot of hidden money from the speed awareness courses.
    I also noticed it does not include the money raised from the fines of people who did not do the course.
    There also seems to be a lot of money for vehicles from fixed camera fines.
     
  13. sospan

    sospan Screwfix Select

    It does.

    Accept what what someone whom has worked within this sphere is saying. As I said earlier in the thread, part of speed enforcement is all about adjusting attitude which is a good lesson to learn from.
     
    WillyEckerslike likes this.
  14. longboat

    longboat Screwfix Select

    Thanks, but that PDF document only provides the income that the 'gosafe' partnership recieves from those willing to take a speed awareness course and not the revenue collected by those who don't attend but are still issued with a speeding ticket.
    Based on the financial statement you provided it works out that the police recieve a nicely rounded 50% of the cost that all attendees that opt for a NDORS course must pay, upfront.
    It amounts to £45/ attendee.

    The latest data i can find on the gosafe partnership relates to 2010/11 statistics where they claim that only 16% of those issued with a 'ticket' opted to take an NDORS course rather than just pay the fine and accept the points.
    Im sure that percentage has risen quite a bit since then as they tighten the noose.
    Its basically akin to an old school mafia protection racket.
    "You pay, like the smart guy we know you are, and we promise nothing bad will happen to your insurance premiums or your license".
    "Kapish".
     
    Deleted member 11267 likes this.
  15. b4xtr

    b4xtr Active Member

    Yes, when i did the speed awareness course, they made it clear that it would not be "visible" to insurance co's and that we would not have to tell them on renewal
     
  16. Comlec

    Comlec Screwfix Select

    I drive a Doblo max and the 50/60/70 speed limits apply so am very careful not to exceed these speeds. The hardest one to cope with is the constant changing form 20 to 30 in London and don't get me started on the bus lane times, Congestion zone, LEZ and ULEZ and yellow boxes (the real cash cow).

    Anyway time to drive across London to Brixton.
     
  17. WillyEckerslike

    WillyEckerslike Screwfix Select

    I've done speed awareness training at work (promoted by the MD getting caught twice in the same day) and about 4 years later having been clocked going too fast through a Welsh village.
    The first (produced by BRAKE a speed awareness charity) was truly harrowing - bereaved parents on video recounting how their lives had been shattered by accidents involving excessive speed - almost unwatchable - somebody must have been peeling onions nearby...

    I was expecting much the same when I took the second but it was completely different. It was more like returning to the classroom and being taught the principles of observant driving, things to look out for and driving to the conditions which might be at much lower speeds than the posted limit. Among many things the most memorable point I came away with was that despite driving at 30mph, if somebody steps out in front of the bus you've just started to pass, you're going to hit them because you cannot stop in that distance (assuming you cannot steer round them of course).

    Despite having a blemish free record in three decades at the time, the first training clearly didn't work as I got clocked. The second however has changed my driving techniques almost beyond recognition. I still drive at the limit when appropriate (and don't hang about getting to it) but I do treat it as a limit not a target and I've stopped listening to stories on long distance journeys because I fear they affect my concentration for instance.

    Why was the second course better? I don't know. Possibly because I wasn't 'guilty' for the first course whereas I was for the second. Perhaps it was the quality of the trainer - the second guy was really good but so was our training officer - one of the best I've come across. I don't know what it was but it has worked.

    There is a sure fire way to avoid getting a speeding ticket - don't speed
     
    Mosaix likes this.
  18. Mosaix

    Mosaix Active Member

    Agree entirely with your experience on your second course.

    'Speed Awareness' is the key. I learnt what distracted me, and how to judge the speed limit from clues around me in the absence of any signage. These courses should be a must for every driver every ten years or so.
     
    WillyEckerslike likes this.
  19. peter palmer

    peter palmer Screwfix Select

    To be fair everyone should already know these things without going on a course, if they don't then they shouldn't have a licence in the first place. Maybe they should take the approach of the 1970s again and teach the clueless pedestrians about road safety as opposed to the car driver, with the amount of muppets staring at mobiles as they shuffle out into the road I'm surprised the figures for road deaths haven't increased 10 fold. When I was young we had things like the green cross code and public information films like this.



    It certainly had an effect and I can't say I've ever been close to being run over whatever the speed of the car.
     
    longboat, sparky steve and Mosaix like this.
  20. Mosaix

    Mosaix Active Member

    Agree Peter, but two things:

    1) Over time, and not just in relation to driving, people acquire bad habits.

    2) Things change. It's over 55 years since I passed my test and, to my shame, until I went on speed awareness course I hadn't re-read the Highway Code. Also there's a lot of 'knowledge' about speed limits (lamp posts spacing etc.) that is passed around and is 'common knowledge' that's just plain wrong.
     
    WillyEckerslike likes this.

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