[b]New cable colours[/b]

3c Electrics

New Member
Can anybody confirm if it is OK to use both old (red/black) for some complete circuits say all the lighting circuits. But use new colours (brown/blue) for the socket circuits for rewire Installation Cert.

I have read the details, Amendment No 2 : 2004 BS7671, which states that both colours may be used on alterations or extensions until April 2006.

It states that both may not be used on new Installations, does this mean that as long as each complete cicuit is wired in the same colour, you could use either colour,as they are separate installations.
 
Had this debate just recently with another sparky. We both concluded that it was OK to use old colours on extensions etc but on new builds only to use new colours. This seemed to be born out by a phone conversation he had with the NAPIT technical line. His choice of old colour was purely down to the fact he was getting it very cheap right now. Me personally I now just use the new stuff and have done with it.
 
You can mix old & new till next year then it's new only.

But as said it would be good practice to use old stuff on an existing install if you still have some and new on rewires or newbuilds etc. :)
 
Hi 16th Edition & Sinewave

Yes I know exactly what your saying. My problem is that I have rewired my house last year. Had a complete loft conversion / dormers fitted etc!. This went on for almost two months during this period I started with the old red and black cables.

Then for some reason I picked up the new brown/blue to complete the rewire rushing around trying to keep the builder happy. Finished and completed the Installation Test Certificate in December 04. No Problem...so far..

August this year I decided to get Part P even though most of my work is commercial. The NAPIT inspector is coming this week to see me at Home...go through assesment

I don't have a problem with the questions or testing as I have the 2391 & 2400 but will he fail me on the use of both types of wiring used....as Installation not Extension or alteration...

Do you think he would be OK or should I cancel.

cheers 3c
 
As I've already stated it is perfectly acceptable to use the old and new colours in an existing installation no matter what the circumstances or configuration.

All you need to do is make sure you have one of those nice little stickers available from your wholesaler that states that 'This installation uses two different colours to BS7671 etc etc' or something along those lines as I can't remember the exact wording.

Chill Winston, all we be fine! :)
 
3c

I have had a problem recently were a spark had commenced the work over a year ago and died. The lady wanted her new bungalow finished as soon as so asked me to complete the work. After testing and ispecting what had already been done I tried in vain to source some red/black 1.5 without success. I asked the question of the nice NIC man and this is his reply!!!

"until 31st March 2006 you can use either the 'old' colours (red and black) or the new harmonized colours (brown and blue) but not both.

The problem you may have is that you run out of red/black and need to use brown /blue, which you can't do. In this case you can either sleeve the brown/blue with red/black or sleeve all of the red/black cables brown/blue ( note this will also apply to the 'tails'

A further point you will need to correctly sleeve ;

strappers two way switches

phase, switched phase and neutral in any 3 core that you may use to any extractor fans

3 core cable between any smoke/ heat detectors

You can't make it up can you. Anyway, off to sleeve all my black/red now.
 
Why is the world so devoid of common sense sometimes!!!!

If it's OK to have mixed colours in old installation when you add something, then how can it suddenly become a real requirement to sleeve up half of the house if you're in the middle of a rewire!!

In reality the situation is no different - you end up with 2 different sets of colours. Big Deal!! Get a sticker and it's all OK surely!!
 
As Mech Eng has pointed out common sense is the way forward, if a property was rewired say 3years ago and in the future the occupier requires additional circuits or to modify the existing wiring, it will not be possible to easily get hold of red & Black, so use the new colours and identify them. I often work on American machinery black live & white neutral and its not a problem, the one that does throw me a bit is 3phase were the blue was a phase and is now a neutral and the black was a neutral and is now a phase, you have to keep your thinking head on

TC
 
In a single phase installation there is absolutely no need to sleeve either set of colours as long as the colour conventions are observed. Yes, of course you have to brown sleeve the grey and black lighting strappers, just as you did with the old red/yellow/blue cable, to flag up the fact that they are all live conductors. But you don't have to, for instance, put red sleeving on brown cable where the two sets of colours meet in, say, a socket outlet, or a junction box.

Your inspector is correct when he says you should not mix colours in a new installation, but that's not quite the situation you describe here and he is being unnecessarily awkward by sticking to his guns in this case.
 
I suppose I could tell him that I didn't put the black/red cable in and just certificate it and put one of those nice stickers on. I find it extremely frustrating that the guys who are supposed to be the "Industry Regulators" are forcing us to employ underhand techniques to get round bloody mindedness.
 
Prior to the new colour regs I often wondered why it was so
important to re-colour the ends of the Red Blue Yellow used in two way lighting for instance. An electrician working on a light switch would know easily what the Red Blue Yellow colours indicated and anybody else tinkering with the circuit
who didn't understand the colours should leave well alone.Imagine if the recommendations had been followed through completely ie twin&E to switch drops both conductors
coloured red and in the case of 3c &E both red and yellow coloured red Would that have made things safer? just the opposite I think.
 
I also think the requirement to red-sleeve the old Red Yellow and Blue Stair Lighting cables was unnecessary, as Red Yellow and Blue obviously meant phase colours to all those older users of this site!
 
I have in the past , used T&E having 2 red conductors, made specifically for switchdrops. Would be intersting to know if it is available in the new colour.
 
Looking in a Bob and ****** warehouse near where i live and they are selling 1.5 and 1 mm red and black twin and earth at reduced prices. I got 100m of 1mm for 4 pound 30 inc vat. Its about 16 pound plus vat from wholesalers now and 2.5mm is 26 + vat. i get discount but the price is now ridiculous.
 
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