Bay window dispute

Discussion in 'Other Trades Talk' started by Boyo99, Jan 4, 2016.

  1. Boyo99

    Boyo99 New Member

    I didn't want to bore everyone with my other gripes about the windows, as it was just the structural aspect I was unsure about
    The actual windows themselves aren't great. They've had to use loads of spacers at the bay wings to try and make them fit, and they're still miles from the brickwork. The finish on the tile sill looks horrible with a big gap at the base of the window requiring beading to hide it; the previous windows were at least flush to the sill. The profiles aren't consistent around the frame as the bottom profile is much deeper and just looks weird (the examples in showroom didn't have this). As mentioned before, the fitters ignored the support issues when they found them and just carried on. The surveyor made the decision not to include stub sills without consulting us (I've read it's common practice to use stubs on old tiled sills, but it's easier to install without them as it allows more room for error). And finally, they sold us the windows under the premise they were covered by Certass which, when we tried to contact Certass to invoke the complaints procedure, it turns out they weren't.
    In my opinion, they haven't covered themselves in glory.
     
  2. chippie244

    chippie244 Super Member

    What I think happened was the surveyor/ salesman turned up with a tape measure and no technical knowledge and then the fitters turned up with the windows, on a price, and no interest. What you are left with is a mess that I don't think you will be able to get someone else to sort for free.
     
  3. Boyo99

    Boyo99 New Member

    You're probably right chippie. It definitely isn't a straightforward situation to try and sort out.
     
  4. chippie244

    chippie244 Super Member

    They are obviously a carp company and you've been unlucky and I feel sorry for you but I wouldn't waste any more time, money or emotional energy persueing it.
    That's just me though.
     
  5. Yeah, we're not all as rich as Chips (see what I did there? :) Fnurrrr fnu.... :oops: )

    Boyo, this is your situation: the new windows are either of an 'acceptable' standard (you can live with it and it won't fall down) or it ain't.

    If it ain't - and by that I mean it reasonably ain't (unacceptable standard of work, or structurally insecure, or both) - then you need to have it sorted.

    To do this is very easy, but you may need to pay for an independent surveyor to write a report. If it turns out that it's as you suspect, then you can add the cost of that surveyor to your claim.

    And you will win. And you will have it sorted. By either the original peeps or by new peeps (in which case the original peeps will pay for the new peeps).

    You might not even need to pay for a surveyor first - it all depends on whether Fensa - or whoever they are with - have any bawls (see what I did there? Man, I'm on fire tonight... :rolleyes: )

    The only proviso is that I think you should expect to pay the extra bit for making the structure secure if that was really required in the first place.

    (Does your bay need extra work over and above properly designed and fitted windows? If so, that's a cost you need to bear.)

    Ok, this is what you do... First try Fensa or whoever. Take photos of all the issues and explain it briefly but completely. See what response you get.

    I fear it might be "You need to employ a surveyor to confirm your claims..." or similar.

    In which case, first of all write to the fitting company explaining in detail what the current situation is, what you expect them to do about it, and what will happen if they don't. Add that you will pay for any additional structural items that would have been required in the first case. Give them a reasonable time - say 7 days (give an actual date) - for them to confirm they will redo the work to an acceptable standard.

    (What you will be 'forced' to do is to employ an independent surveyor who's report you will then use to sue the company for a full replacement of their unacceptable work - and you will be adding the report's cost to your bill.)

    If they reply "Non" or ignore your recorded delivery letter, then employ the surveyor and get the process running.

    Don't worry about this - a surveyor surely shouldn't cost more than, say, a couple of £undred - a couple of hours work? And you'll get it back - assuming you have a case.

    Armed with this report, you contact them again, show them the report, and tell them your case is absolutely rock solid; you absolutely will win (mention Small Claims Court or MoneyClaim.gov - followed by 'TheSheriffsOffice' if they hesitate to pay up).

    Tell them that, as a reasonable person, you will first allow them one last chance to make good their mistakes before you take legal action. Tell them that, if they don't, you will employ another contractor to do so, add the cost of the surveyor to the bill, and you will sue them for it all. In any case, they now owe you the cost of the surveyor which you will sue them for even if they agree to carry out the work - they forced you to spend that money. Again, give them one week to reply.

    If they don't, get another window contractor to do the work, and you then either use your local 'Small Claims' court or MoneyClaim.gov on-line to sue the original company.

    If the surveyor's report confirms what you say, and if they have ignored your request for them to sort, then you will certainly win.

    That's the gist. Contact your local Citizen's Advice for details on the proper process - you must follow it to the letter.
     
    Boyo99 likes this.
  6. Mr. Handyandy

    Mr. Handyandy Screwfix Select

    Right. You said in your first post that the windows weren't wide enough and the bay poles sit too far back.

    Is this different than they were before?

    If so, the surveyor has measured wrongly, or the windows have been made wrongly.

    If they were measured to fit what was there, they should at least be in the same place as the originals.

    If they are set back too far, you may also have problems with the bottom drain holes not running on to the tiled sills(one reason why a stub sill might need to be used).

    If the sides are so short of the wall that more than 10mm of packers are needed, that is a bad measurement. For anything more than that, there are add-on pieces made for the purpose.

    If you can see and show that the old window came out further and wider(and that's where the new should be, but isn't), you have a very good case.

    Mr. HandyAndy - Really
     
  7. chippie244

    chippie244 Super Member

    Fensa don't care.
    No one give's an monkey's
    The window company replaced like for like.
    Dev's, you seem to have this supreme belief in Money Claims Online, I have been through that and it took 18 months to win my case but it wasn't worth the sleep I lost.
    You have to prove financial loss.
     
  8. Boyo99

    Boyo99 New Member

    Thanks everyone, really appreciate the advice. Have got some thinking to do. I'll drop a note here hopefully once it's all sorted. cheers
     
  9. Biffo

    Biffo Member

    if its as bad as you say its definitely a miss measure you state the walls were stripped back so how did they get the returns so wrong ??? tell them you want the bay remade bigger on a stubb this will give you a bigger gap inside , take up the tiles and fit new ones or a duraboard if theres no support youll have the same problem again top bay dropping did they use bay jacks ?? im guessing a 5 sider ??
     
  10. Biffo

    Biffo Member

     
  11. Fensa probably don't care - I dunno.

    The window co simply replaced like for like? If so, then Biffo's case is more of a toughie. (Unless it wasn't of an acceptable standard of work.)

    I haven't used MoneyClaim myself so cannot comment, and only had to resort to Small Claims Court once, many many moons ago - successfully. However, I am nigh-on 100% certain that a legitimate and worth-while claim will be addressed by either of these methods with relatively little hassle.

    I have recently taken on 'Apple' with an out-of-guarantee, tampered-with iPad. And they gave in after swearing for weeks they wouldn't. It was the ultimate threat of SCC that swung it, along with me convincing them I had a valid case.

    We had a bay window replaced around 6 months ago, and the local guys did a cracking job. Had they not done so, I'd have made them sort it - no question.

    Obviously I don't know the details of Biffo's case other than wot he's said on here, so I was careful to point out that their work had to be of an "unacceptable standard of work, or structurally insecure, or both."
     
    chippie244 and Biffo like this.
  12. Biffo

    Biffo Member

    if id messed up the survey like that and the customer isnt happy id re order the bay 100% sxxt happens hold your hands up
     
  13. Mr Rusty

    Mr Rusty Screwfix Select

    Money claim on line is easier to use as a consumer against a company, than it is company against consumer or another company because of the aspect that the supplier should have expertise that a consumer cannot be expected to have. Consumer law is quite strong. Irrespective of whether the bay has structural problems, it has an opening for a window, and any window made for the opening should fit. A reputable company may well point out structural issues, and/or might decline an order until a structural problem is corrected, but if a consumer asks for a window to fit an odd shaped opening, that's what should be provided. If the supplier surveys it, makes it and then fits it, it isn't reasonable to then turn round and blame the customer's premises if it doesn't fit! I suspect FENSA is a waste of time, but an independent surveyors report shouldn't be a problem.
     
  14. dave103

    dave103 New Member

    Chippie244, can you take a look at this thread and comment : https://community.screwfix.com/threads/double-glazing-poorly-fitted-help-appreciated.208281/

    Thanks and much appreciated
     

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