Best fixing for shower

Discussion in 'Tilers' Talk' started by hezzie, Mar 12, 2013.

  1. hezzie

    hezzie Member

    Morning all,

    I'm hoping for some advice, I need to install a thermostatic shower at the end of the bath (Pictured).

    At the moment it's plasterboard, I was thinking of replacing it with cement backer board but as the shower head and controls will be mounted to it I was wondering if cement board would be strong enough if the head or controls were knocked by somone.

    I thought maybe some sort of plastic sheeting instead such as nylon, acrylic etc would be more suitable, the bath surround will either be tiled or clad in bathroom paneling and there will be a glass shower panel attached to the studwork behind the new panel.

    Or would the cement board be strong enough on it's own?

    Any thoughts/advice on this please?

    Thanks

    Wayne.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. hezzie

    hezzie Member

    Anyone?
     
  3. Mr. Handyandy

    Mr. Handyandy Screwfix Select

    What is the wall inside the cupboard to the right?

    If it is open(you see the studs) you can fix struts in there to fix to.

    Mr. HandyAndy - Really
     
  4. teabreak

    teabreak Screwfix Select

    As Handy says, or bond a sheet of 18mm ply to the back of the board with building adhesive plus a few screws for good measure, then screw through the board into that.

    Regards,
    teabreak
     
  5. hezzie

    hezzie Member

    Thanks for the replys chaps.

    The cupboard has another plasterboard panel on the inside, I was going to cut access panels in this  where I need to screw the board to the studs and access the plumbing.

    I never thought of bonding ply to the studs first, thanks Teabreak.

    The main part of my question was if I fixed the cement board to the studs, then cut out the holes for the shower head and controls, would the cement board be strong enough if someone slipped and grabbed the shower controls, or is the cement board like biscuit and liable to break.

    I might screw a ply board in place as a belt and braces measure.

    Thanks for the reply Handy Andy & Teabreak.
     
  6. tictic

    tictic New Member

    Yes 12.5mm cement based backer boards are more stronger etc,.. than plasterboard...and will hold more weight ect..

    as Andy  has said just beef up the studs at the back wall,..to get better fixing for your fittings for shower..
     
  7. hezzie

    hezzie Member

    Thanks tictic
     
  8. hezzie

    hezzie Member

    Update: Ok I took the plasterboard off, the studs are 360mm apart from one centre to the other so as far as I can see I dont need to add more studs but I've got a few questions if you could answer them please.

    The wiring is now disconnected by the way.
    [​IMG]

    1. Do I need to add some more noggings? If so, how many?
    2. Do I need to fit 2 noggins side by side for the horizontal joint between the 2 aquapanels
    3. I've bought Wickes Joint adhesive and joint tape (Pictured) did I need both, in reading the forums I think I should use Joint tape embedded into tile adhesive, which would you use now as I have both, the joint adhesive between the 2 boards or joint tape and tile adhesive.
    4. What do I fill the gaps with to the left hand side between the solid wall and the aquapanel and between the aquapanel and top of the bath.
    5. I need some (ideally) premixed flexible tile adhesive (Latex based according to knauf) and grout, someone suggested Bal adhesive but Bal single part flexible 20kg (powder) is £49.99 from topps tiles (ouch) do screwfix sell something that's suitable that's not quite that expensive and will do the job, I can't find anything latex based on the site.

    I have search the forums for these answers but can't find any specifics, I wish I had the money to 'get a man in' but unfortunately I can't afford it at the moment as I've already done that for the electrics and some other work, so I'll have to do this one myself.

    Thanks in advance for any replies. :)

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Mr. Handyandy

    Mr. Handyandy Screwfix Select

    You could solve your questions 1,2 and 4, by fixing a full sheet of 18mm ply to the studs to cover the whole lot before your backing board goes to the ply.

    Mr. HandyAndy - Really
     
  10. hezzie

    hezzie Member

    Ok, I see your point Handyandy, it would mean the tiles would be an inch or so over the bath which might cause a problem if I ever needed to change or remove it but it would solve a few more problems including strengthening the shower controls and shower head....ok I'll fix ply to it as you suggest, thank you very much for your advice. :)

    Ok, that's 1, 2 and 4 sorted anyone help with 3 & 5 please?

    ......Thanks again Andy.
     
  11. tictic

    tictic New Member

    Ok first you want to know the position off your mixer bar and bracket( you did buy the fixing bracket with the mixer).....?

    then when you know this position, you will dwang it across with 2x2ect screwed across the stud...then drill your 15mm/20mm ect hole through these dwangs for your pipe work...
    then transfer these holes onto your 12.5mm backer boards...drill thro b/board...

    Just use the fiba tape for  the board joins and in the corner as well using your adhesive...

    what type off tiles and size are you fixing??

    then we will tell you best adhesive and grout to use..

    the wall doesn't need anymore bracing IMO...the bath is only 700mm wide,so your existing frame work will be fine..

    as for the latex based addy Kauffman recommend.....a cement based flex will do..but let me know the tiles a and sizes first..


    your ? Number 2.....how many b/boards do you have,....you are just boarding that one wall or you doing the wet area around the bath length as well?

    looking at your pic again...looks like a solid wall along the bath....?....if so just use a tanking kit and just paint it on at least halfway up the wall along the bath...

    what was the wiring that was there for??....
     
  12. hezzie

    hezzie Member

    Wow, thanks for the comprehensive answer tictic.

    I'm just boarding the back wall (photographed), I didn't know I had to tank the solid wall...great that's something else I've got to read up on. :'(

    The last time I did something similar I paid a tiler to do it for me and he just tiled straight onto the painted wall, we didn't have any problems with it, so is tanking absolutely necessary if it's a solid brick wall. (which it is, it's a 1930's house)

    We haven't picked the tiles yet so I'll post the dimensions when we do.

    It will actually be easier not to add a ply panel to the equation because the aquaboard will fit nicely to the floor behind the bath if I don't add the board, I'll just have to add a strip for the water to run into the bath instead.

    I haven't bought the backing plate for the shower controls yet but I know I need to fit one.

    Thanks for taking the time to write all the above, that's been very helpful, much appreciated. :)

    The wiring was for the old immersion heater before the condensing boiler was fitted downstairs, the cupboard used to house the tank for the hot water.
     
  13. tictic

    tictic New Member

    The reason I would advice a water proof membrane along the bath length and halfway up the wall...the thermostatic shower head will be a lot more powerfull than an electric one...so your grout will take a lot more off a beating so to speak....

    grout isn't waterproof it's water resistant/repellent...unless you use epoxy grout 100% waterproof....

    just take yer time with all the preperation this is the most important part off the job,...the rest is a piece off.. Colin nish...;)
     
  14. hezzie

    hezzie Member

    Thanks Colin, yer a good 'un. ;)

    Wayne.
     
  15. tictic

    tictic New Member

    ....
    colin nish =...*



    Come back on when you have yer tiles mate,then will advise on addy and grout ect...

    Message was edited by: Screwfix Moderator 1 due to unsuitable content
     
  16. hezzie

    hezzie Member

    That's very good of you, thank you very much I will. :)

    I bought the fixing bracket today it's called a marflow shower PL8 (did you see what they did there ) in the instructions it tells you to cut out a section to fit it into the aqua/plaster board but if I do that it defeats the object of having a waterproof panel. It's quite thin so I'm sure it can be screwed to the aquaboard then tiled over without showing.

    I'll do a bit more over easter, thanks for your help you've pointed out a few things I wasn't aware of.

    Much appreciated.



    Edited: I've just reread your post No 10 Tictic.......

    "Ok first you want to know the position off your mixer bar and bracket( you did buy the fixing bracket with the mixer).....?

    then  when you know this position, you will dwang it across with 2x2ect  screwed across the stud...then drill your 15mm/20mm ect hole through  these dwangs for your pipe work...
    then transfer these holes onto your 12.5mm backer boards...drill thro b/board..."

    That tells me exactly how to fix the bar mixer...Doh.

    Thanks.
     
  17. hezzie

    hezzie Member

    p.s I had to google 'Dwang'.
     
  18. Hezzie

    IM not sure if your all good to go, but I 've just read your original question and it is one about strength of the "substrate" to fix the shower valve onto

    Backer board has not intrinsic strength in tension but its good in compression. Timber is good in both.

    Once the backer board has been fixted to the timber frame and the first fix plumbing has been positioned with tails poking through wall.

    Run a bead of clear silicone between the bath and backerboard and "squeeze it in between the downturn of the bath and the board.

    Then you then tile the wall (I would always use webber SPF rapid, slexible, water resistant, and fast setting). Tanking is optional depending on belt and braces, backerboard is more forgiving than plasterboard (to be fair plasterboard is rubbish once it gets wet) if you get water ingress and the key is to stop the water getting in in the first place.

    Another key tip is to tile to within 1-2mm of the bath top, no more and no less.

    Now grout, do not grout the bath edge to tile. Half fill bath with water and run your finishing bead of silicone round the bath edges, it only needs to be a thin layer and make sure that it is squeezed into the gap between the tiles and bath making a full depth joint

    This is a finish of a shower tray but the principal is the same
    [​IMG]
    (existing shower tray I was refirbishing the area)

    Hope this helps

    Russ

    www.iiplumbing-services-derby.co.uk
     
  19. hezzie

    hezzie Member

    Thanks for taking the time to write that Russ, I'm no further on at at the moment but I will be starting again this week. I think everyone has answered all my questions now, thank you for those extra tips, I think I can do a half decent job now which should last, you just answered the last couple of questions I was pondering.

    The weber SPF rapid is a good price and it seems plenty of other tilers/plumbers agree with you that it's the stuff to use, so weber SPF rapid it is then, much obliged.

    Thanks to everyone for all their reply's, I didn't expect so much help from people who don't even know me, I do appreciate all your help and advice.

    Thanks again.

    Regards, Wayne.
     
  20. hezzie

    hezzie Member

    Well, I'm getting there, I decided to follw Mr HandyAndy's advice after all [​IMG] and added an 18mm sheet of ply, it fitted perfectly behind the bath into the 19mm hole.

    I've been tring to level the bath all day, you alter one corner and it throws another out :'( nearly there now, just a gnat's chuff out at the mo' so I'm having a break and going back to it.

    Who would think levelling a bath would be so difficult. [​IMG]

    I think I will tank it after all, better safe than sorry, do I need to tank the aquaboard?

    I had the ply cut in half to fit in my car, then sandwiched silicone seal in there when I put it up.

    Pic's of the job so far (Newest to oldest)

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     

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