best method to build large gates

Discussion in 'Carpenters' Talk' started by jack101, May 10, 2012.

  1. goldenboy

    goldenboy Super Member

    Wish I had seen this topic before so I could put my input in. I have done big gates this way before and would never do it again, using the steel frame is a great idea for durability but you absolutely for certain will find that whatever finish is applied the ply will ridge when rain gets on it where there is a void under the face of the ply, especially at £10 a sheet. Have experienced this to my cost before. I would have just used t&g iroko the required thickness.
     
  2. jack101

    jack101 New Member

    they are definitley not dropping, you cant tell properly from the photo. they arent finished yet, just hung today to fill in the hole for security.
     
  3. jack101

    jack101 New Member

    this will not affect me. im using lining board to cover the ply as detailed above and as shown in the photos. no rain will get onto the ply.
     
  4. removed 7

    removed 7 New Member

    Nice stone wall, nice arch.............


    Shame about the cheap and nasty gates.


    Lucia,
     
  5. goldenboy

    goldenboy Super Member

    Ignore all the sniping comments on here some people have nothing better to do , all I am saying is that in my personal experience and thats a fair amount, exterior ply really isnt what it used to be and it deteriorates very quickly these days even if it is faced up with solid, rain gets absolutely everywhere especially through even the tightest fitting joint, if you are v jointing the faced boards you may end up with not much left preventing ingress, if I was to have no choice and had to do something like this again, I would definitely use an exterior decorators caulk or overpaintable frame sealant between every joint(I am presuming this will be painted) otherwise rain will ingress and the ply will swell up and the facing boards will start shifting. As I say I have done exactly the same as this before and had problems.
     
  6. jack101

    jack101 New Member

    i can only assume you have not read the posts properly
     
  7. jack101

    jack101 New Member

    thanks for your input, the lining board is tongue and groove with silicone sealant in every joint, i can assure you no water will get through.
     
  8. goldenboy

    goldenboy Super Member

    Silicone and paint or finish dont go together well, better to use an overpaintable frame sealant or  exterior caulk. Myself personally I would have done these traditionally using mortice and tenon construction, its worked for centuries. The other problem with timber and metal combination constructions like these is that the timber will react to damp and dry, hot and cold very differently to the metal framework. You may find that the metal frames stay true but the ply/solid really want to move a lot, once that starts moving as a big sheet you may end up with problems,

      Without wanting to sound harsh or anything you do very much come across as having an answer for everything and dont seem to welcome any form of comment from anyone. If thats the case then just get on with making them as you seem to think you know everything and it begs the question why bother posting on here and inviting opinions. Twitter and Facebook are the kingdoms dominated by people who are convinced that the world is waiting for updates on the minutiae of their lives, maybe that would be a better vehicle for your revolutionary gates.
     
  9. jack101

    jack101 New Member

    i welcome comment and advice, just take a look at my last reply to you when i wrote thanks for your input. what more do you want,  a cheque?
    the silicone is inside the joint so it doesnt get painted over. if you look closely at the whole thread and alos look at the photo in detail, you will notice that i too have some experience in this because i made all of the timber items in the photo. your previous posts suggested to me that you didnt fully understand my construction method, so i thought i should point it out to you. each time i have, you have picked up on something else to criticise.
    the reason i posted the photos and the update was because someone requested it in a previous post.
    i dont have any desire to display my work on the internet.
    the fact is that timber only gates do warp and it is the typical attitude of some people to keep doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results - that is insanity.
    i happen to someone who likes to look at different ways of doing things and then choose what i think is the best method - everyone is entitled to their own opinions but many of the comments on this particular subject are just plain wrong. some people seem to have assumed that because im dont know lots about gates then i know nothing about anything. (the post about historic scotland springs to mind)
    im sure the gates will be ok, if there are any problems i will be honest and let you know. i will also add a couple more photos when the are finished.
    thanks
     
  10. goldenboy

    goldenboy Super Member

    Not questioning your ability, just questioning the fact that you post on here and invite peoples response to your plans, then when you get responses and actual real-life experiences of metal and timber construction you bat them all away with a "you are wrong and I am right" attitude.

    If you are so confident that everything you are doing is correct and infallible just get on with doing it and dont bother asking for opinions.
     
  11. jack101

    jack101 New Member

    its not about being infallible, i make plenty of errors and try to learn from them.
    just take the points that were made above and let me know if you think any of them were correct or could have known that they were correct?

    1. hinges are dropping - viewed from photo
    2. gates look cheap and nasty - caption clearly states they are not finished yet
    3. v jointing lack of seal - i assume before you knew they were t&g
    4. ply getting wet regardless of finish - i assume before you knew they were getting covered in lining board.
    5. need scottish heritage approval - simply not true
    6. complexity of my design - i think the gates i made are simple

    i probably said something wrong as well - im happy with the gates so far so i suppose they have fulfilled their purpose.
     
  12. removed 7

    removed 7 New Member

    I've read the entite thread carefully. It's such a shame that the laird or customer didn't opt for tradititional solid oak gates - rather than that faux-Disneyland plywood base on steel montrosity........
    The O/P is clearly quite proud of his creation or illusion - but it just won't do.




    Lucia.
     
  13. Mr. Handyandy

    Mr. Handyandy Screwfix Select

    How come they are not 2.7m high as originally suggested ?


    Mr. HandyAndy - Really
     
  14. jack101

    jack101 New Member

    well fair enough thats your opinion but the plywood and steel will not be seen. FYI i am the "laird
     
  15. removed 7

    removed 7 New Member

    Perhaps they have 2.7 metre sheets of ply in Disneyland.............


    Lucia
     
  16. jack101

    jack101 New Member

    we lowered the top section to leave enough room for a van to fit through and it worked out that 8 and 1/2 ft approx was enough so it worked out nicely to make the gates just over 8 ft. the original 9ft was an estimate without any of the other structure in place.
    thanks
     
  17. Mr. Handyandy

    Mr. Handyandy Screwfix Select

    It is 'possible'.

    You can say one thing for sure, and that is that these gates will be sturdy.


    (I still say the gap at the closing edges is 6mm less at the top than the bottom:))

    Mr. HandyAndy - Really
     
  18. jack101

    jack101 New Member

    you never heard of 10ft ply?
     
  19. jack101

    jack101 New Member

    its a black dpc that needs cut back that is causing the effect. the gates have been taken off and re fitted a couple of times. they are pretty heavy.
     
  20. removed 7

    removed 7 New Member

    This has nothing to do with English Heritage or 'Scottish Heritage'.  As far as I'm concerned it's simply a question of good taste and a good will to conserve and preserve traditional buildings by using traditional materials.




    Lucia.
     

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