Blocked Radiators

Discussion in 'Plumbers' Talk' started by RK78, Oct 19, 2017.

  1. RK78

    RK78 New Member

    Just had a new boiler fitted through the energy improvement scheme. Explained there were 3 radiators not working before he started work. The engineer said at the time it would be probably stuck a TRV on the radiators.

    After the install he went round and said my radiators must have a blockage as they still weren't working. One didn't have any water in it He was more interested in getting home and left the job.

    I would like some advice on what he should have done during the install? Should he have flushed the system and checked for any blockages? The boiler is a heat only system and I know he only drained the system.
    Should I get someone to come and look at the blocked Radiators or would I be in my rights to get the company to come back and sort the problem? Don't really know how I stand with this.

    Thank you any help would be appreciated
     
  2. The Teach

    The Teach Active Member

    Contact who you have been dealing with and tell them your heating is not working.
     
  3. RK78

    RK78 New Member

    Thanks a bit annoyed as I explained the situation before he started. Felt like it was not their issue
     
  4. Devil's Advocate

    Devil's Advocate Well-Known Member

    And all modern high-efficiency boiler installs should be accompanied by a full power-flush.

    What should he have done? Carried out a power flush! He should also have identified the cause of the non-functioning rads. The worst scenario for him is that he'd have to fully remove them and take them outside for checking and cleaning - a straight-forward job for a plumber.

    This guy is almost certainly making very good money from this scheme (I bet he charges full whack for the boilers and parts as well...) and is not acting responsibly. He has seemingly become lazy as he feels he has no personal responsibility to his 'customers' - as he no longer sees them as such, but just a supply chain for his wage packet.

    He should therefore be chucked off this nice contract and a deserving plumber allowed on.

    You SHOULD report him to the scheme's providers. In fact, it ain't your job to try and figure out what's wrong and then liaise with this plumber, but go directly to his employer. That should focus this charlatan's mind.


    Please keep us posted on this one :)

    (A power-flush is a requirement for many (all?) boiler manufacturers before they issue a proper guarantee against faults.)
     
  5. KIAB

    KIAB Well-Known Member

    Power Flushing is a quick way to make money, better to fit Magnaclean filter & use a Magnalcleanse on system.
     
  6. RK78

    RK78 New Member

    Thanks for all your replies it was through NPower energy improvements. Will get back to them
     
  7. RK78

    RK78 New Member

    Ok, just made a phone call to N Power energy improvements team who have told me that I it is not theirs or the company who installed my boiler responsibility in regard to my radiators not working. Their only responsibility is replacing the boiler.

    The advisor read through my notes and also explained that they should have picked this up on the survey.
    Obviously they didn't, he also stated that the engineer should have carried out a full system flush to which I have no recollection of him doing so.

    Fuming at the moment because I don't know where I stand with this situation. Obviously I've got a complaints department email but feel I'm going to get fobbed off.
     
  8. Devil's Advocate

    Devil's Advocate Well-Known Member

    I get what they say - if you have a 'faulty' radiator, then it's not their job to 'fix' or 'replace' it.

    However, it IS their job to power-flush a system so that it is as free of sediment and sludge as it can be, because modern boilers have very small channels inside them which DO block up very easily (as I know to my cost...)

    Also, to be blunt, if I were an installer, I would NOT leave a customer with a rad that doesn't heat up regardless of the reason. I would at least have checked the TRV valve and then carried out some simple and basic checks to try and work out what the cause is if the valves were ok.

    Because this is EASY stuff, and - IF this is caused by a sludged radiator(s) - then your boiler is going to be knackered in a few very short years as this stuff slowly builds up inside it.

    Were you present while they did the job? If so, a power-flush these days usually consists of connecting a large boxy thing to your system using hoses and then going around each radiator and vibrating (or hammering...) then individually to release any sludge inside. This takes a good solid hour at least, so should have been obvious.

    Look up the make and model of boiler fitted, and then read the installation/warranty instructions for this on their website. Chances are that a P-F is a requirement for their extended warranty.
     
  9. Devil's Advocate

    Devil's Advocate Well-Known Member

    I have to disagree, KIAB - from experience.

    I have had long-term issues with sludge causing problems with my GlowWorm - usually the P2P exchanger blocking up over a year or so. (But also the diverter valve sticking.)

    This is despite having had a Magnaclean Pro fitted for a few years, along with Sent X800 (for a few weeks) and then their longer-term stuff. I have then flushed through with clean water and redone this a few times over the past few years. The Mag Pro has always successfully collected a good few mm of sludge during all this - but my bludy boiler has still packed in on a 2-yearly basis due to sludge. The Mag Pro does NOT collect it all, or anything like. Then, as you may know, I bought a Magnacleanse PF unit and plumbed that in for a month or so, again with chemicals. That collected a very significant amount of sludge before it petered away to now't. All has been well since.
     
  10. The Teach

    The Teach Active Member

    The sub,sub,subbed contracted installer would have been asked to exchange the boiler,only,

    He/she (cautious) would not have knowledge of your radiators prior to arrival and not instructed to make all the rads operational (existing defects do exist)

    Maybe a complete new radiator & re piped installation should have been recommended to the grant company but the grant companies work in different ways.

    Further investigation is required to get all your radiators heating up,sorry no easy remedy.
     
  11. Devil's Advocate

    Devil's Advocate Well-Known Member

    RK, were you provided with a warranty?

    If so, how long for?

    What make and model of boiler?
     
  12. KIAB

    KIAB Well-Known Member

    Your disagreeing with me:eek:,but I see you also found the powerflush achieved little results compared to using the magnacleanse.

    The Magnaclean Pro or any other magnetic filters will never collect 100% of the crud,as you have inaccessible area in pipes,radiators,etc, where the water will just flow over the crud that has built up.
    Had a system a few years ago, a women paid several hundred quid, maybe more for a power flush, due to poor heating of radiators,not a lot of crud removed, she was still having poblems, so I fitted a Magnaclean Pro to system & dosed system with X800 or MC5, then used a Magnacleanse, she was amazed at the amount of crud collected, & I went back several over the coming weeks to clean out filter regularly, now it's emptied maybe once a year.
     
  13. KIAB

    KIAB Well-Known Member

    I'm always amazed when boilers are changed, they don't clean out system before installing new boiler,had a friend eariler this year had a new Vaillant fitted, no filter fitted, & system wasn't even flushed prior to fitting.:(
     
  14. The Teach

    The Teach Active Member

    Have been asked to install new gas boilers for grant companies but only took the work when had **** all work on rainy days.

    The job instruction was to collect material order number xxxxx at a local merchants,install, commission boiler,do paperwork and dispose of rubbish.

    The boilers always worked but the systems installed on to often need upgrade/remedial works.The grant company expects the system/radiators to be suitable,installed/serviced correctly.

    End users had to stump up extra costs but happy to do that for cash ;)
     
  15. RK78

    RK78 New Member

    The model is a BAXI eco advanced I have to keep up with the servicing plan and register to get my warranty.
     
  16. Devil's Advocate

    Devil's Advocate Well-Known Member

    What I'm saying is, the 'domestic' Magnaclean Pro did not catch all the sludge flowing past it - the boiler was still wrecked.

    The Magnacleanse, however, certainly appeared to pick up everything - and the boiler noticeably improved in how fast it responded to a hot tap being opened.

    Both devices were used with similar chemicals - and the Pro over a much longer period of time.

    I would now always suggest - 'Cleanse to clean your system, and 'Pro to act as an assistant over time to hopefully catch any tiny remaining residue.
     
    KIAB likes this.
  17. Devil's Advocate

    Devil's Advocate Well-Known Member

    Did they leave you a 'Benchmark' or 'Commissioning certificate/checklist'?

    If so, any mention of 'power-flush' or similar?
     
  18. RK78

    RK78 New Member

    I will take a look, N Power complaints are ringing me in the morning so will go from there. Didn't ask them to ring just askef for their email. I'm wondering if they're backtracking now especially after how they spoke to me earlier today
     
  19. Devil's Advocate

    Devil's Advocate Well-Known Member

    Keep us posted.

    (What is the 'Energy Improvement Scheme' - does it cost you anything?)
     
  20. Devil's Advocate

    Devil's Advocate Well-Known Member

    10 year warranty on that model - under certain conditions, one of which is that it's installed according to instructions which includes cleaning the system:



    This warranty does not cover the following.

    Boilers which have not been:
    • installed and set up strictly in line with the installation instructions supplied with them (including the requirement to clean the system and add corrosion inhibitor in line with BS7593:1992);


    And the first condition that first needs to be met is:
    1. The installer must be registered with Gas Safe and complete the Benchmark commissioning checklist in full at the time the boiler is installed. This checklist must be made available to us if we ask and is found at the back of the installation instructions.
      If this condition is not met, this warranty is not valid.

    http://warranty.baxi.co.uk/terms
     

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