Bodge Buster - A Homeowner's Guide to Air Source Heat Pump Installations

I And yes, I'm looking for a decent installer, last one wanted 10k to do the install, I asked him if he was on drugs.

Lookup Heat Geek. They have a register of people they have trained and to what level. Expect to be paying £600 a day for a top quality engineer though.
 
So a 40kWh battery would be enough to power even the largest domestic system for approaching ten hours at full output.
Looked up cost of 40 kWh battery, £10,200.00 that's more than I will ever spend on heating even if I live to 100. I use about a tank of 28 sec gas oil a year around 600 gallons I think, never worked out tank size, since we don't want to run out, topped up twice a year, last time I think £350, so at £700 a year, £10,200 + cost of the heat pump £7000 + cost to fit larger radiators and pipes, so looking at over £25k, come on talk sense, that's a non starter.
 
The 40kWh battery was your suggestion in the context of V2L I thought?

ASHPs are available from eg Octopus for around £3k. The main reasons for the slow demand are:

  1. The continuing miss information campaign being run by the fossil fuel industry, and
  2. The continuing failure of Government to address the retail price of electricity, which is also driven by the fossil fuel lobby for example in onshore wind planning paralysis.

ASHPs right now will work at 65C flow temp at SCOPs of over 2. The only barrier in the end is the price of electricity for the majority of domestic dwellings.

Why anyone would want to come on a forum and do the work of the fossil lobby for them free of charge I simply do not understand.
 
I use about a tank of 28 sec gas oil a year around 600 gallons I think, never worked out tank size, since we don't want to run out, topped up twice a year, last time I think £350, so at £700 a year

600 gallons is about 2,700 litres which is about £1,900 at current prices. Annual demand of about 30MWh producing 7 tonnes CO2.
 
@Jimbo - how often do these ASHP require regassing ? I ask as a house nearby is getting it regassed and this happens every other year. I have no idea how much this costs but on a car this is between £75 to £200 depending on the type of refrigerant and lubricant. Does the dryer/desiccator needs swapping out too (if there is one of those like on a car) ?
 
ASHPs are available from eg Octopus for around £3k.
I looked into this and the price of the pump itself was negligible when it was put into the context of the complete install.

All my floors would have to come up; engineered oak, tiles and so on for new plumbing (we have 8mm microbore). All new radiators and underfloor heating, and then the redecorating afterwards as all the skirting would have to come out to get the floors up.

So in our case the issue is that the cost would be around 15k-20k (maybe more) and at the end of that we would probably not be saving anything in running costs, certainly not enough to justify the upfront capital expenditure. Our cost monthly has just gone down to £110 a month, this is with a 3 bedroom, two bathroom relatively large semi and a Vallaint VCW combi which is now over 30 years old and going strong.

As for "saving" the planet, unless one believes that mankind has a special place in the universe in a religious sense, the human race's long term existence, or that of any other section of the animal kingdom, is meaningless.
 
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600 gallons is about 2,700 litres which is about £1,900 at current prices. Annual demand of about 30MWh producing 7 tonnes CO2.
No oil heating owner in there right mind buy's oil at this time of year (winter) as it is the most expensive time of year. I for one watch the market and buy hopefully at the cheapest, usually during the summer.

This ridiculous banging on about CO2 should remain the concern of those countries spewing the most, not used to penalize householders and industry here. Green posturing has a lot to answer for!
I had a large bonfire over several days to burn the remains of a large hedge that could not be composted, I had no qualms whatsoever.
 
All my floors would have to come up; engineered oak, tiles and so on for new plumbing (we have 8mm microbore).

The travesty here is that builders are still putting in micro bore right now, saddling owners of brand new homes with tens of thousands of entirely avoidable costs in the future.
 
Looked up cost of 40 kWh battery, £10,200.00 that's more than I will ever spend on heating even if I live to 100. I use about a tank of 28 sec gas oil a year around 600 gallons I think, never worked out tank size, since we don't want to run out, topped up twice a year, last time I think £350, so at £700 a year, £10,200 + cost of the heat pump £7000 + cost to fit larger radiators and pipes, so looking at over £25k, come on talk sense, that's a non starter.

It would be if it was £25k, fortunately it's not, there are companies that will charge that though, but just as an example, a Mitsubishi ecodan is about £5k, that's a good way off £25k installation.
 
@Jimbo - how often do these ASHP require regassing ? I ask as a house nearby is getting it regassed and this happens every other year. I have no idea how much this costs but on a car this is between £75 to £200 depending on the type of refrigerant and lubricant. Does the dryer/desiccator needs swapping out too (if there is one of those like on a car) ?

Much the same service charge as a combi boiler I'm told.
 
Is the
Mitsubishi ecodan
a type of battery?

My point is we can't rely on the electric supply, so the cost of fitting the heat pump must include the method to heat the house should electric power fail, my method is far from perfect, as with the type of weather we get when electric power fails, it is likely not enough sun to recharge batteries. But at least I have a chance of heating the house during a power cut. Only a 3.2 kWh battery, but as long as I get some solar I have a chance.

Solar is around 3.5 kW on a good day, so having a 40 kWh battery would be silly, as no real way to recharge it, OK my battery is on the small size, but really only there to bridge the gaps when clouds come over, it is not designed to work over night, as the night rate for electric means it not worth it.

My dad's old house had three fire places, two replace with gas fires, so he did not need electric, my old house a flue brick with a 4.5 kW gas fire, again no need for electric, but here I am on oil, so no provision for a gas fire, we have no gas, so it would be a case of lighting a wood fire until I have enough charge in the battery. And pray my freezers last out.

Without the fire place I would be looking at a generator, but the government has changed the rules, it seems a generator is now a road vehicle, and we have to use fuel for a diesel engined road vehicle DERV for short, so clearly trying to stop us using generators.
 
Is the

a type of battery?

My point is we can't rely on the electric supply, so the cost of fitting the heat pump must include the method to heat the house should electric power fail, my method is far from perfect, as with the type of weather we get when electric power fails, it is likely not enough sun to recharge batteries. But at least I have a chance of heating the house during a power cut. Only a 3.2 kWh battery, but as long as I get some solar I have a chance.

Solar is around 3.5 kW on a good day, so having a 40 kWh battery would be silly, as no real way to recharge it, OK my battery is on the small size, but really only there to bridge the gaps when clouds come over, it is not designed to work over night, as the night rate for electric means it not worth it.

My dad's old house had three fire places, two replace with gas fires, so he did not need electric, my old house a flue brick with a 4.5 kW gas fire, again no need for electric, but here I am on oil, so no provision for a gas fire, we have no gas, so it would be a case of lighting a wood fire until I have enough charge in the battery. And pray my freezers last out.

Without the fire place I would be looking at a generator, but the government has changed the rules, it seems a generator is now a road vehicle, and we have to use fuel for a diesel engined road vehicle DERV for short, so clearly trying to stop us using generators.

I think the first thing to mention is that you don't want an ASHP in a house that is badly insulated in the first place, if you are in danger of freezing to death if there is a power cut it's not the ideal choice, and probably stops there.

For some they charge the electric car on cheap night tariff then they can use the power from that to power the house if need be, bit like me going to the pub in the diesel car, you can't freeze to death in a power cut if you got a car, ok they do it in a more dignified way and don't need to walk back from the pub in a storm.

The ideal is a wood stove and an ASHP, you always have heat with the stove and it's handy if the temperature drops below efficiency for an ASHP, that would be my solution, another way is rather than a battery just have a thermal tank, and use the water from that to heat the rads, a tank is just hot water storage after all.

But you are right, if you live in fear of power cuts and freezing in the event of, ASHP's are probably not the best thing for you.
 
Ecodan is Mitsubishi’s brand for residential ASHPs @MGW. These, and Vaillant’s Arotherm Plus, are two of the best regarded systems currently. Both are based on R290, which is well suited to Uk climate, providing full output across pretty much any temperature we are likely to experience (less at the top end, though that’s obviously less of a problem).
 
For the heat pump to work, the home needs to require heat 24/7, great for a care home, or the retired, and those with young children. But were the home is left empty during the day, and only an hour in the morning while getting ready for work, we only want to heat the home 6 pm to 11 pm, once we go to bed, heating can go off.

So recovery speed is important, using sequenced re-heat, kitchen then dinning room, then living room, and finally bedroom can increase the reheat speed, and use of fan assisted radiators can also increase the speed, but my 19 kW oil heater is not really large enough, maybe with heat pump one could get away with half that power, so 10 kW, but that is 43 amp, whole house only has a 60 amp supply, and clearly need to shower, so the shower and heat pump will take the whole of the house supply, without adding EV charging, cooking etc.

So only way is to use a well under powered heat pump, and leave it on 24/7 which means we a wasting loads of power. Yes could use batteries to spread the load, but by time one adds it all up, the cost to the environment to re-pipe as it needs more flow and lagging, and the battery, plus new shower, new water heating, and the problem if the government turn off electric like they did in 1978 your left with no heating, not ideal with solar panels and battery and oil boiler, but at least I have a chance of some heating.

It's great to see resources like Bodge Buster helping homeowners understand air source heat pump installations! For those who want to improve their knowledge even more https://customwriting.com/offers excellent essay writing services on various topics. Whether it's renewable energy or other technical topics, getting clear explanations can make a huge difference. We hope that books like this and other educational resources will continue to raise standards and make renewable energy options more affordable and reliable for everyone.

Leonard James Callaghan, Baron Callaghan of Cardiff,, commonly known as Jim Callaghan, has a lot to answer for, he made it so we don't trust having an electric supply, the Labour party killed any idea of people fitting heat pumps, at least those who remember it, so repeating is lease we forget.
Using a heat pump 24/7 isn’t efficient for limited home use. Thanks for sharing though!
 
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Using a heat pump 24/7 isn’t efficient for limited home use. Thanks for sharing though!
The thread is 10 month old, however to some extent I agree with you, it is however dependent on home and lifestyle, so with a well insulated home, a room at 20 degs C from 6 pm to 10:30 pm, is likely still at 18 degs C at 6 pm the next day, so having the room maintained at 20 degs will not cost much.

However, in 1978-9 we were living in a new build, with picture windows single glazed with hot air gas central heating, when Prime Minister James Callaghan and his Labour Party government, said crisis what crisis, and started turning off the electrical power for an extended time, the house was like an ice block, and I vowed never again to rely on the electric grid for heating the home.

To run my oil fired heating, we do need some grid power, but we can survive for quite a long time without it, not put it to the test, but the solar panels and battery will likely provide enough electric to power the boiler without relying on grid power, but a heat pump would require a generator to work without grid power, so for most homes is a non-starter.

OK going from resistive electric to heat pump, where both require grid power, then no loss, but oil or gas to heat pump, who in their right mind would do that?
 
The thread is 10 month old, however to some extent I agree with you, it is however dependent on home and lifestyle, so with a well insulated home, a room at 20 degs C from 6 pm to 10:30 pm, is likely still at 18 degs C at 6 pm the next day, so having the room maintained at 20 degs will not cost much.

However, in 1978-9 we were living in a new build, with picture windows single glazed with hot air gas central heating, when Prime Minister James Callaghan and his Labour Party government, said crisis what crisis, and started turning off the electrical power for an extended time, the house was like an ice block, and I vowed never again to rely on the electric grid for heating the home.

To run my oil fired heating, we do need some grid power, but we can survive for quite a long time without it, not put it to the test, but the solar panels and battery will likely provide enough electric to power the boiler without relying on grid power, but a heat pump would require a generator to work without grid power, so for most homes is a non-starter.

OK going from resistive electric to heat pump, where both require grid power, then no loss, but oil or gas to heat pump, who in their right mind would do that?

I would, I have never frozen to death in a power cut yet, it's just not a consideration for me.
 
and the problem if the government turn off electric like they did in 1978 your left with no heating,
With the current policy to rely almost totally on wind and solar for electricity, with backup pretty much solely by interconnectors from Europe, there is every chance that, given a cold, windless spell in winter, we will suffer electricity blackouts. These will be renamed "electricity demand management" to make them sound more acceptable.
It is not sensible to rely totally on electricity for house and HW heating
 
Today I have no young children, and we have a fire place which could be opened up in 1/2 hour to heat the house, and enough wood for the BBQ which could be burnt on the open fire. Also, solar panels and back up battery.

But in 1978-9 I was living on a shoe string, to the point could not even afford a Mars bar over our budget, by 1980 I had left this country and was working in Algeria and our fortunes had changed, but with a fixed rate mortgage of 14% nearly all my earning went into buying the house, which had gas hot air central heating, which would not work without electric, and two small children.

I learnt lessons to remember rest of my life, don't rely on the grid electric supply, or the Labour Party, and I will not forget those lessons.
 
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