Bodge job? 20mm porcelain tiles

Discussion in 'Landscaping and Outdoors' started by sirlunk, Jul 4, 2019.

  1. Alwaysworking

    Alwaysworking Active Member

    Here we go, you bought the tiles.

    They really can't be held to any issues they are claiming are with the tiles, uneven, irregular sizes, bowed, bumpy, thin, thick and every thing else.

    But you can hold them to the grouting.
     
  2. robertpstubbs

    robertpstubbs Screwfix Select

    Buy a DeWalt D240000 tile cutter, a DeWalt cordless angle grinder (with progressive switch control) + battery + charger, a Belle mixer, and a Belle whacker, and you would probably have change from £2K.
     
  3. DIYDave.

    DIYDave. Screwfix Select


    I really don’t agree with your post, if I understand what your saying ?

    ‘As the OP supplied the tiles, if the tiles are uneven in size and/or thickness, and this has resulted in a poor job, then it’s not the workers fault as materials have been supplied by the homeowner’d

    Is that what your saying ??

    If that is what your saying, then that’s a crazy statement to make as this job was carried out by professionals

    It’s general knowledge (I assume) that many ‘natural’ tiles/slabs are uneven in size and thickness. Travertine, Indian Sandstone, Slate, York Stone, etc

    It’s a given, you simply adjust the bed as your laying to compensate and adjust the spaces, can’t always use an exact 2/4/6mm plastic spacer as this will throw out the lines on uneven tiles. A mix of spacers and cardboard works here

    This is basic stuff surely ?

    Basic for a diyer (me)
    Basic for a pro landscaper (in theory)

    But anyway, we are talking about man made porcelain tiles here

    Do they vary that much in size and thickness ?

    I don’t profess to know but, wouldn’t think so, surely ?

    So how can the fact that tiles supplied by homeowner are the cause of a shoddy job ?

    If I’ve misunderstood your post, apologies but .......
     
    PhilSo likes this.
  4. Astramax

    Astramax Super Member

    People supplying there own materials generally source the cheapest going thinking they got a blinder deal .......fact is it's cheap for a reason!
     
    blarblarblarblar likes this.
  5. sirlunk

    sirlunk New Member

    The tiles are Italian. Manufacturer is ARPA. £53 per sq. m. Total cost £3400.
     
  6. PhilSo

    PhilSo Screwfix Select

    Is that cheap .
    Doesn't appear to be cheap .

    PhilSo :cool:
     
  7. PhilSo

    PhilSo Screwfix Select

    I think you've become part of their learning curve .

    And you've learnt something too.

    C'est la vie.

    PhilSo :rolleyes:
     
  8. blarblarblarblar

    blarblarblarblar Active Member

    Doesn’t make them good quality, because you paid so much.
     
  9. blarblarblarblar

    blarblarblarblar Active Member

    Not cheap, doesn’t make it good quality though.
    There is generally only one real reason people buy their own materials is because they go cheaper, not sayin that’s happened but probably bought a diy product and yes there is a difference
     
  10. PhilSo

    PhilSo Screwfix Select

    That's a bit harsh !

    Unkind even .

    PhilSo
     
  11. blarblarblarblar

    blarblarblarblar Active Member

    Yeah I get this. I quote to lay 200 tiles and estimate 5 days to complete, but the tiles you supply are bent, warped odd sizes and they are a bugger to lay, porcelain tiles are generally pretty good, not like travertine or sandstone, if they can’t be matched or placed equally you do what you can and in this case a wider gap to remove the obvious, so no longer sticking to the 2mm gap, I get that and agree. As for the grouting, there is no excuse, they should have held off, until the weather was suitable.

    I build houses, so sorry sir your house is not vertical because it was windy and it was the best I could do, not a chance. If any of that makes sense.
     
  12. blarblarblarblar

    blarblarblarblar Active Member

    Why is it?
    Unless you fully research what you are buying and know a little about what you are asking for, you’ll get the run of the mill gear at double the cost. You can’t expect a trade to make up for the ops mistake and yeah I do feel sorry for him, because there really isn’t much he can genuinely do about this
     
  13. choppy111

    choppy111 Member

    I'm not a tiler or landscaper, but I've seen a wet trade guy whose very his good at his job lay a 50m2+ patio in 600x600 polished granite slabs. The material may be wrong, but they were bedded in cement all butted up tight - looks stunning.

    If you asked for 2mm grout lines and the builder gave you 8mm without confirming with you due to complications with the tiles, you have a right to complain since this isn't what you asked for.

    Any discrepancies with the tiles or alterations should always be confirmed with the client before work continues. The client is the one paying for the work not the builder
     
    PhilSo likes this.
  14. PhilSo

    PhilSo Screwfix Select

    I agree totally .

    Check the materials before you start.

    You'd do that if you had ordered and paid for them.

    Before you sign the delivery ticket .

    PhilSo
     
  15. AkaMiguel

    AkaMiguel New Member


    I had the same problem with a landscaper but worse last year told him it was not good uneven tiles chipping etc and needed sorting but when I went away for work for a week he just carried on and nearly ruined over 4k of 20mm 900x450 tiles ! Sacked on the spot I can’t say what I wanted to do ! I even I paid most of the money too kind so my bad there. I ripped the whole lot up and only broke 2 tiles weak motor and weak slurry on the back of the tiles. I used a full tang Hamilton scrapper to lift the tiles worked a treat with a hammer bashing through weak motor. Ripped up the mortar bed that was not even a full one. Stripped off the sub base as that was not right and lowered and reset the falls 1:80 and had to underpin the walls for seating. Put back the sub base and 2 more tonne bags of sub base and used a wacker plate.

    Then picked up my own cement mixer and laid 5x concrete bays 8:1 mix of grano dust joining 3 of then up with the middle one about 50sqm + 2x other walkways much the same. That was last year then this year from April laid the tiles on the concrete with tile adhesive full rib and bashed down with a rubber mallet. I used a 4mm spacer wedge system to stop and raised edges of tiles. Now the grouting to do so hope to have it done before winter sets in but hard now with a hose pipe ban.2m level and 3m straight edge for this and checked every side and corner for raised edges every tile fitted and clipped and clamped with wedge spacers and clipping tool.

    I used a small angle grinder and rubi porcelain blade for straight cuts taking my time with about 5-6 passes to cut through. After that I washed down and cleaned up the edges with diamond sanding pads different grades to to give a straight clean smooth edge.they will always chip a bit but if careful and practice can be done with sanding down the edges with water soaked pads.Always use ppe a good mask a must for cutting porcelain tiles. Lucky for me a good neighbour is a retired builder and mortar yoda and talked me through what to do and is now looking how it should. Agree 8mm too wide 3-4 is good and I am nearly there using all my holiday up 2 weeks last year and 4 weeks this year with lots of weekends and evenings on it. for grouting a wash boy is a must and cleaning out the grout lines this weekend.

    Too many landscapers say they can do a porcelain patio and change loads of money and do not know what they are doing. Seen so many horror stories and been through it but it can be done to a high standard for a professional finish with the right installation and tools. They really need to re-train it’s basically a big tiling job ask a professional tiller. So many people want porcelain patios now be careful who you use and talk through the installation every step of the way. I learned the hard way in so many ways so sorry to hear someone else going through much the same.

    grouting in the heat outdoors not good I made that mistake so raking it out and starting again but over that now. I hope you get it sorted
     
  16. AkaMiguel

    AkaMiguel New Member

    Feel the pain I had the same some landscapers think there the same as laying stone but no way very different. I complained to mine about bad cuts and lots of chips and raised edges and went away for a week working came back and he just carried on so big bust up and sacked on the spot! I had paid for most of the job never again,around 100 sqm in all on seating and walkway nearly 4k of tiles ruined .

    I ripped it all up last year and only broke 2 tiles used a full tang Hamilton scrapper tap tap here and there pop! Then the horror story shows. Not full bed of motor and bad sub base! Ripped all of it up reset the levels dug out 5-6 tonne of soil and added 2 tonne of sub base with a whacker plate. Levels reset and full baton job of 100mm of concrete pour by hand with a cement mixer 8:1 mix of grano dust and cement late last year. Did 3 Bays with the middle one joining up the others and 1mm out string lined the hell out of it in all directions. Lucky for me my neighbour is a retired builder a yoda mortar master! Talked me all through it and pointed out all the errors and even
    underpinned the seating as advised due to laying blocks strained onto oversight!

    Cleaned up the tiles and laid on a full bed of tile adhesive for external use and used 4mm spacer wedge clipping system. Checked as I laid each tile for and raided edges. All cuts done with a wet saw to start and or be fair just as good with a small angle grinder with a rubi porcelain blade on a table top close to it. They always chip a bit and 5-6 passes work best slow job let the blade do the job. To finish use a diamond sanding pad 60-80 grit then 120 and if cut straight you cant even tell once fitted and grouted.

    make sure to use ppe good mask essential here! Now ready for grouting but looks so much better now and as the saying goes if you want a job doing properly do it yourself.

    so good landscaper knows how to do porcelain but not all of them greed gets them and then they screw people over.

    hope you get it sorted soon I am nearly there with mine 1 year later a nightmare nearly over. I will never trust a landscaper again and any trades man will look at previous work and talk trough the whole job step by step in detail first for sure. Once bitten never forgotten good luck.
     

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