Boris

[Muzungu]

I think you're right. Type 'motive' into Google and the first answer says 'a reason for doing something'.

Naturally, Lord Joe the Plumber wouldn't have got confused like that.

Let me supply the full difference from google using your short extract emboldened. Note "while reason is a cause" so differentiating reason from motive:

"As nouns the difference between motive and reason
is that motive is an incentive to act; a reason for doing something; anything that prompted a choice of action while reason is a cause"

 

[longboat]

The quotes come from the summary judgement.

You say the full judgement has everything to do with Brexit. Just to be clear from those who have not read the full judgement, Brexit is not mentioned as far as I remember (I am sure you will put me right if I am wrong as I don't intend to read it again). You are making an inference from the judgement that it is "all about Brexit", I do not make that inference. Now you could argue that the judgement may have an influence on the Prime Minister's strategy for delivering Brexit, in that I would agree you but at the same time arguing that the judgment was not in itself about Brexit. There is no change in what I have previously said, more a clarification I think.

My personal opinion on Brexit, that I have not yet given, is that it will be a mistake and I am easy with anything that frustrates it. I am happy with how things are going, it looks very much like the end result will be either another referendum, when the first result will be overturned, or a watering down of a hard Brexit to the point where we may as well stay in. I can't say I am hugely excited about whatever happens and am watching this more in the way of it being a superior soap opera.

You say the full judgement has everything to do with Brexit. Just to be clear from those who have not read the full judgement, Brexit is not mentioned as far as I remember (I am sure you will put me right if I am wrong as I don't intend to read it again). You are making an inference from the judgement that it is "all about Brexit", I do not make that inference.

I'd say that the most worrisome aspect that has been brought to light during this case and the outcome of such, is the fact that a summary (highly edited) version of proceedings takes precedence above the actual text.
I get it that a half hour read of some of the most jingoistic text known to man isn't for everyone, but i would expect that at least our members of parliament took the time, and had the ability to understand what they were reading.
Judging by the comments spewed forth by the majority in the house yesterday, it appears that they couldn't care less.

The popular media inspired term for Britain leaving the, EU, is mentioned four times in the un-edited version.
The correct term; Withdrawal Agreement, is mentioned no less than 29.

 

[Muzungu]

You say the full judgement has everything to do with Brexit. Just to be clear from those who have not read the full judgement, Brexit is not mentioned as far as I remember (I am sure you will put me right if I am wrong as I don't intend to read it again). You are making an inference from the judgement that it is "all about Brexit", I do not make that inference.

I'd say that the most worrisome aspect that has been brought to light during this case and the outcome of such, is the fact that a summary (highly edited) version of proceedings takes precedence above the actual text.
I get it that a half hour read of some of the most jingoistic text known to man isn't for everyone, but i would expect that at least our members of parliament took the time, and had the ability to understand what they were reading.
Judging by the comments spewed forth by the majority in the house yesterday, it appears that they couldn't care less.

The popular media inspired term for Britain leaving the, EU, is mentioned four times in the un-edited version.
The correct term; Withdrawal Agreement, is mentioned no less than 29.

With all due respect Longboat if you don't understand the difference between motive and reason it is going to be impossible for you to understand the judgement in any meaningful way as that is a crucial part of the judgement.

I am now out of the debate.

 

[ajohn]

One problem the Tories has is it's rather meagre 150,000 party members. Cameron reckoned that many live in the past etc. Problem, while leader elections are probably rigged as much as they can be by control of who gets put forwards it's the party members that vote on who gets the job.

Personally I am embarrassed for the country when I see so called debates in parliament on the telly. It's now used as a good way of broadcasting in a fashion often aimed at stirring up some proportion of the population. No better than twitter or youtube really and can if done well be just as effective. So hence all of the rants some of which are totally stupid and the new word for a recent bill "the surrender bill". Farage has done a rather interesting party political add. Expect more of the same in all areas especially from the outs and of course noises about the court case from the others.

The out lot are clearly thinking it worked last time so it will again. When the election comes expect markists comments, can't run the country, that has worked before and lots of other drivel from all sides. The only solid comments will be intent in relationship to Brexit. Out or in, both so simple. Another option try again and vote isn't.

John
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[longboat]

With all due respect Longboat if you don't understand the difference between motive and reason it is going to be impossible for you to understand the judgement in any meaningful way as that is a crucial part of the judgement.

I am now out of the debate.

I respect your reasons for reaching such a definitive conclusion even if my motivations didn't intend so.
The overriding point i was making is that its always best to speak to the organ grinder rather than the monkey.
In my opinion 'summaries' shouldn't be available to anyone, let alone MP's to form their opinions from.
The tabloids have long cornered the market in that score.

 

[Joe the Plumber]

Let me supply the full difference from google using your short extract emboldened. Note "while reason is a cause" so differentiating reason from motive:

"As nouns the difference between motive and reason
is that motive is an incentive to act; a reason for doing something; anything that prompted a choice of action while reason is a cause"

Point taken, thank you.

One thing that's amused me this week. Parliament has now returned, and all that's happened is both sides have stood there shouting at each other for prolonged periods. If that's all they're going to do, what was the sense in coming back?

 

[Heat]

Point taken, thank you.

One thing that's amused me this week. Parliament has now returned, and all that's happened is both sides have stood there shouting at each other for prolonged periods. If that's all they're going to do, what was the sense in coming back?

That also had been my point before they came back after the court ruling, - what for?
I could easily do what they do, - just sit and nod or shout, with the occasional short speech (usually a rant and about some childish or pointless criticism).

 

[ajohn]

Point taken, thank you.

One thing that's amused me this week. Parliament has now returned, and all that's happened is both sides have stood there shouting at each other for prolonged periods. If that's all they're going to do, what was the sense in coming back?

They know it will be shown on the TV and many assume that the public are basically idiots and will behave as expected if pushed in the right way. Sadly I sometimes think they are correct but in practice they only need to swing the opinion of relatively small numbers of people to achieve their ends.

John
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[Joe the Plumber]

MPs ought to be reminded that every penny of their salaries comes from our taxes. They are paid by us, so they must do as they're told by us, or resign if they feel they can't.

 

[Heat]

I look at it this way, - if you work for a company and don’t agree with the direction the leadership is taking the company, you can decide to either fully support and work along with the company, or leave the company.
You wouldn’t try to thwart the function of the company or destroy it.
All we have in Westminster is MPs trying to ruin every step the government tries to take, often for self interest.
It has been said before, but the fact is had the vote been 52% for Remain, we would have been told that was final and no further debate or referendums would be allowed.

 

[Tony Goddard]

I look at it this way, - if you work for a company and don’t agree with the direction the leadership is taking the company, you can decide to either fully support and work along with the company, or leave the company.
You wouldn’t try to thwart the function of the company or destroy it.
All we have in Westminster is MPs trying to ruin every step the government tries to take, often for self interest.
It has been said before, but the fact is had the vote been 52% for Remain, we would have been told that was final and no further debate or referendums would be allowed.

Very true

I suggested to our local MP, that we should have a general election, but with a caveat, no serving or former MPs be allowed to stand - he looked at me aghast, I pointed out that is what companies do if their board arn't cutting it, they are out and replaced, if this lot can't work, out they go, new broom.

 

[Heat]

Very true

I suggested to our local MP, that we should have a general election, but with a caveat, no serving or former MPs be allowed to stand - he looked at me aghast, I pointed out that is what companies do if their board arn't cutting it, they are out and replaced, if this lot can't work, out they go, new broom.

It is the only job when you can fail and even lose your job and repeatedly then go back to same job again.

 

[ajohn]

Very true

I suggested to our local MP, that we should have a general election, but with a caveat, no serving or former MPs be allowed to stand - he looked at me aghast, I pointed out that is what companies do if their board arn't cutting it, they are out and replaced, if this lot can't work, out they go, new broom.

Unfortunately we have a new crew who are now campaigning for a general election. Suddenly billions are available for all sorts - over 5 years of course. Some of it sounds left wing. Increase in the minimum wage which of course is a little higher than what Labour have mentioned and could easily be wiped out by inflation and devaluation. Lots on infrastructure - Labours intention when they last lost and is needed. Then lots to the NHS, education, police and etc.

Some of it went down like a damp squid at their conference. Many wonder where the money is coming from.

John
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[Heat]

Unfortunately we have a new crew who are now campaigning for a general election. Suddenly billions are available for all sorts - over 5 years of course. Some of it sounds left wing. Increase in the minimum wage which of course is a little higher than what Labour have mentioned and could easily be wiped out by inflation and devaluation. Lots on infrastructure - Labours intention when they last lost and is needed. Then lots to the NHS, education, police and etc.

Some of it went down like a damp squid at their conference. Many wonder where the money is coming from.

John
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Just was an answer to the Labour Party claims of what they would do if they were government.
Talk is cheap.

 

[Missever]

View attachment 33148

Don't encourage him Kiab.