Discussion in 'Just Talk' started by Harry Stottle, Aug 29, 2019.

  1. ajohn

    ajohn Well-Known Member

    LOL You mean you posted without reading and so posted again quoting it?

    ;) BBC news reporting annoyed me a bit lunchtime and even more so in the evening but did remedied it a bit by broadcasting what he actually said. Then channel 4 really p##sed me off with utterly stupid questions. It all down to the editors trying to create exciting news and not liking fact. That probably influenced a fair number of people on brexit as well plus the total taters that were kicking about at the time anyway.

  2. Tony Goddard

    Tony Goddard Well-Known Member

    I think its all going just how Boris planned it to, yes he's had 6 defeats, but I think they were calculated, the mathematics of parliament meant he can't have expected to win any of them.

    The first one was to flush out the traitors in his own party, give them enough rope to hang themselves. He then knocked the idea of an election before the 31st on the head, twice, he called Corbyns bluff and he bottled it, twice.

    As a bonus he's got shot of Bercow, all that took up a week, now they are off for 5 weeks and can't interfere. The law means he has to ask for an extension, but will he bother?, the courts have already set a precedent by saying they don't want to be involved in politics. Even if he does the chances of all 27 EU states agreeing to another extension are near nil, Macron only just let the last one go through.

    There will be an election afterwards, at which I hope everyone will sit for any candidate other than the sitting candidate - time for a complete change of personnel and a new venue, members sat in a circle UN style, alphabetically, not by party, electronic voting, no more lobbies, grandstanding and titting about on the taxpayers money.
  3. ajohn

    ajohn Well-Known Member

    The reason that no one will vote for an election is because once that happens he can set it when ever he likes and that can and would affect Brexit.

    It's thought that he might start a vote on loss of confidence of his own party to try and force an election. Unlikely to succeed for the reason above.

    My personal view is that those that started it all should be in when we are out and for at least 5 years after that. Then it will be pretty clear who caused any problems. They should bring all of them back including Cameron.

    Hitler is supposed to have said something on the lines "Isn't it fortunate for leaders that men are such fools". He didn't and we also have women that vote so men should include them as well.

    There is a country that is run and offers much the same as ours

    In their case debt is 39% of GDP unlike our 87%

    Problem with the so called Conservatives is that they went radical in Mrs T's time and it hasn't worked out and never will do unless there are some pretty large changes. What do people do though - blame it on the EU. :) You'll all realise that one day.

  4. Muzungu

    Muzungu Active Member

    I think anyone who attempts to say with any confidence what is going to happen next is guessing more than anything else.

    Having said that let's take a punt.

    We are not going to leave on the 31st and an election follows soon after. The Conservatives have got themselves in a bit of a hole. They will lose a significant amount of voters to the Lib Dems due to their (the Conservatives) relinquishing the middle ground and veering to the right. They might gain a bit from the traditional Labour voters who voted leave, but if the Brexit party are in the running they may lose out on a significant number of that demographic.

    Following the election there will be another hung parliament with both Labour and Conservatives struggling to form some sort of coalition with the other parties. Labour will form a coalition Government with the SNP and Lib Dems and any Green party MPs; all remainers. Another referendum will follow when the country will vote remain.

    There's my take but I am not at all confident of any of the above, just putting it out there. As I said, anyone who is confident as to what will now happen is in my opinion guessing.
  5. Bob Rathbone

    Bob Rathbone Well-Known Member

    Yes, we need some of that either way for all sides.
  6. Bob Rathbone

    Bob Rathbone Well-Known Member

    Any alternative solution to the issues faced are imaginary at the moment. It is imagination that is required in spades, to get us out of this god almighty mess.
  7. Bill Bog

    Bill Bog Member

    Is anyone a bit uneasy about how Boris is doing things? I thought he would be a breath of fresh air, frank in his comments and dealings and at least open and honest., but he seems more and more to be doing things in a sly way.
  8. Muzungu

    Muzungu Active Member

    Have to say his reasons given for the prorogation of parliament are clearly untrue, anyone can see that it is obviously due to wanting parliament out of the way while he tries to do whatever he is doing. The issue of whether he is within his rights to prorogate is separate to his reasons given; which are, to put it bluntly, a lie. We will find out if he is within his rights this week; his untruth as to the reason of prorogation is pretty blatant in my opinion which implies he knew that he was on dodgy ground.
  9. Bill Bog

    Bill Bog Member

    Does it matter if he lies?
  10. Bill Bog

    Bill Bog Member

    Looks like im talking to myself :)

    Boris has support on this thread so I wonder what his supporters think about this? Harry, does it matter if he lies to get the job done?
  11. Heat

    Heat Well-Known Member

    He should tell the truth, but I would expect politicians to be shrewd and diplomatic with their statements and that often will mean not stating the full facts.
    It seems to be a dirty game politics and to tell the whole truth gets you in trouble.
    Too many people waiting to try and steal your job in politics, whether you are merely a local MP or in the leading party or Prime Minister.
    It is sadly political suicide for a current or would be politician to tell it how it is.
  12. dobbie

    dobbie Well-Known Member

    That is a prerequisite of being a mp and is written into the job description, it does not matter if they are a good liar or bad liar, they will lie that they did not lie to cover themselves.
  13. ajohn

    ajohn Well-Known Member

    He's a newspaper columnist. If he writes a speech it's always very likely to sound good. Off the cuff he waffles. As a columnist he's known to lie, mislead and distort truth. According to the Cameron documentary he couldn't make his mind up which side to join. General thoughts were that he chose the side that would be best for him - chance of becoming PM. At the last minute as well.

    There is no way we will stop politicians bending things now. That's probably why the court case was dropped because of what would have happened if he lost. Politics would have to have changed for good and they would have become responsible for what ever they say. Same thing may happen in the current case. It will become a precedent and set what they can or can't do in the future.

    Maybe he will force the EU to offer another deal that includes free trade and no catches. Many of the people alongside him just want out. Pick which ever way you like we wont know until it happens either way. One good thing is that once people like him have power they may well think a little harder because they will be remembered by the outcome. If that happens I expect more waffle from him and others to make him seem blameless. However if just out people will view all of them in a different way within a couple of years. Some think great. I'm inclined to think otherwise.

    Bill Bog likes this.
  14. Bill Bog

    Bill Bog Member

    Which court case was dropped?

    I don't know, this might all be a good thing with all the lies finally coming home to roost making people accountable for what they say.
  15. Bill Bog

    Bill Bog Member

    What are you thinking of when you say it would be political suicide for a politician to tell it how it is? What sorts of things? Aren't there any politicians who tell it as it is?!
  16. ajohn

    ajohn Well-Known Member

    Some one took him to court over the claims and speeches around the Brexit bus. The judges just decided that they shouldn't get involved in politics. On the other hand adverts for other things if the claims are misleading can be taken to court but not politicians.

    The only leader that has stuck to the same comments on it all is Corbyn. Initially not favouring another referendum but later down to what was going on in the commons probably the only solution. Get a deal and yes he will try for something different and then a referendum - accept it or stay in. If the commons can't settle that is the only way really. Others are just jumping on the various band wagons that are available in the hope of getting votes,

    An election is likely to finish up with a mess and Farage stirring in the background, That may well result in another hung parliament.

    Bill Bog likes this.
  17. Heat

    Heat Well-Known Member

    Certainly in UK politics to avoid being controversial a person needs to steer clear of telling the full truth in regards to religion, race, or about another country.
    I think the more honest politicians tend to be rare and always in the lower ranks, if indeed they can keep in politics.
    Some truths just aren’t accepted.
    Even on this forum most of us avoid telling the full facts as we see or know them, due to the risk of repercussions.
    Ceebee likes this.
  18. Muzungu

    Muzungu Active Member

    He has lied repeatedly in his personal life, not least to his wife and family.

    I have never understood the opinion, often given with some pomposity, that if it is to do with a politician's personal life one shouldn't comment about it. Surely the standards one follows with those who are closest to you should, if anything, be higher than those to whom you owe nothing; and so are a reflection of how one would expect a person to behave to those who are strangers.

    Of course all politicians dissemble to a lesser or greater extent; I expect that, but I would prefer to have a PM who does not tell such obvious lies (reasons for the prorogation of parliament). To my mind it lessens a person when they lie, I think most people feel the same when they know someone who is an habitual liar.
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2019
    Bill Bog likes this.
  19. ajohn

    ajohn Well-Known Member

    Who urges the Scotch to leave the UK. A few politicians. Who also urges then Welsh to do the same Same but a lot less of them on the other hand far more Welsh people are learning Welsh. It's still in the background but may well get more popular eventually.

    Not much different to leaving the EU really. Plug away long enough and they succeed and it doesn't matter if it's a really a good idea or not. It's just what they want. In real terms they are odd balls.

  20. dobbie

    dobbie Well-Known Member

    Scotch is another name for Whisky, which is an Alchoholic drink. I would think the Distillers of it, and the Politicians, would like to see as much of it as possible leaving the UK, because it is very good for Exports.

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