Bought recently extended bungalow with Completeion Certificate BUT>>>

Discussion in 'Builders' Talk' started by IWANTBLUE, May 17, 2019.

  1. IWANTBLUE

    IWANTBLUE New Member

    as above, newly extended bungalow, just over a year old (extension) we were not allowed in the loft because the seller claimed to have had a bad experience in the past whereby a potential buyer had gone through the ceiling and the estate agent had absolute kittens when I took my telescopic ladder in to try and view from the loft hatch so I only peered in and saw insulation local to the hatch at the opposite end of the bungalow to the newly built extension.

    As the Whole Extension was covered with planning permission and had a Building Control completion certificate we were not too worried about anything as there was an expectation/assumption that everything would have been built to regs.

    So sorry for the build-up, if you're still with me, congrats and thanks ;) But to the question, we have since found out that the insulation is to regs in the original section of the bungalow, but the new build single ground level but including full sloping roof extension and additional roof section over new kitchen. HAS NO INSULATION WHATSOEVER.

    Clearly, we were under the impression that Full Regulation level insulation would have had to have been provided to obtain the completion certificate?
    Do we have any come back over the Building inspector? the builder? the seller? for the costs of insulating this section of the loft to the regulation spec? Or is it just tough luck buttercup, suck it up and pay for it yourself??

    If the latter what is the point of the Completion certificate if the regulations applicable are not complied with? and it's still provided?

    If we do have any course of redress, can we go ahead and get the loft insulation done, then attempt to claim costs? or would we have to allow the builder the opportunity to put it right? Clearly, we are reluctant to go this route unless forced as if the builder didn't see fit to lag it in the first place ....

    I have contacted the issuing company, though not the issuing surveyor and received a bunch of reasons why it may not have been picked up, but no help regarding putting it right other than we should get it done to regulation... NO SH SH...

    discuss :)
     
  2. gas monkey

    gas monkey Well-Known Member

    It will send you round the bend
     
  3. jonathanc

    jonathanc Active Member

    Building control have no liability to you as a third party. Look at the questions your solicitor asked the vendor. Did they warrant the work had been done to regs. If so then claim from vendor. If solicitor didn’t ask then you may have a case against solicitor because they should have asked
     
  4. ajohn

    ajohn Active Member

    Probably a lot simpler to have it done or go round in ever decreasing circles. Maybe do just that for a while. You might have more luck with who ever the builder was and the fact that you have the building control certificate. They should have done the work.

    One solution may be to get it done. Who ever does that can give you something Independent stating that it hadn't been done and then chase the builder through the small claims court. If successful I'd suggest you ask the court to collect the money.

    No idea but maybe there is some ceiling material that includes insulation and that may not be immediately apparent. ;) Probably be a lot thicker than usual in that case.

    John
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  5. Hans_25

    Hans_25 Active Member

    Did you have a building survey/inspection done with a report? Should have been picked up in that.
     
  6. IWANTBLUE

    IWANTBLUE New Member

    I feared as much ;)

    JC do you mean 3rd party as in buyer rather than owner when the work was carried out? I could see that point, however, this is 'forgetting the fact that they (BC) have signed off a Project without making any effort to check that the regulations have been adhered to? (NB there are apparently no notes relating to the certification with regard to lack of access etc. )

    Ref the solicitor's Notes yes there were obviously some questions asked and a specific one ref the insulation, but that was because we had assumed the new build had it but wanted confirmation that the old property had regulation levels of insulation, the answer was that the work had been signed off with a completion certificate, provided. but that they would not entertain any further insulation being laid.I will follow up on the specific wording though thanks JC


    We've decided to go this route I think aJohn in any case for peace of mind of knowing its done and done right... but will certainly follow up with BC and the builder depending on what BC say.
    Small Claim....Assuming we go ahead and have it done as is current plan depending on costs we'll consider this.



    We did indeed, and you would think so, wouldn't you... However we upgraded the Building Societies survey to the home buyers report or whatever the middle-grade report is and the surveyer claimed that he could not gain access to the loft properly due to the insulation being 'present' but piled up in clumps?, preventing access to the rest of the loft . it was when this happened that we requested the assurance that the older part of the property was lagged to regs , as we realised the Completion certificate wouldn't cover the original building...(Oh the Irony, that the original was lagged correctly, once the clumps had been relaid, but the new build had NONe)

    thanks for the viewpoints , much as |I suspected, but appreciated all the same , Thanks.
     
  7. jonathanc

    jonathanc Active Member

    Yes I mean third party as a buyer.
     
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  8. Hans_25

    Hans_25 Active Member

    I think in this case you just swallow the issue and insulate the new roof as appropriate.
     
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  9. Mr Rusty

    Mr Rusty Well-Known Member

    I am surprised this got signed off without an insulation check, but there it is. Mask, gloves, oversuit, couple of crawlboards to put over the joists , few rolls of insulation and off you go. Don't do it on a hot day !! :p:p
     
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  10. Hans_25

    Hans_25 Active Member

    I used Knauf Earthwool and hardly needed a face mask or gloves.
     
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  11. ajohn

    ajohn Active Member

    Small claims is done on the web now and rather simple. No need for legal people but have to accept the decision they come to. To be honest I don't think that the builder could avoid paying for it but suspect you should give him the chance to finish the job off first telling him what you will do if they don't.

    John
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  12. Mr Rusty

    Mr Rusty Well-Known Member

    Morally you are right, but practically, 6-9 months of letter writing and b*gg*ration for the sake of a few rolls of insulation. Pick your fights, and this really isn't one.
     
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  13. ajohn

    ajohn Active Member

    LOL Makes me think you did the work :) It's much simpler than you suggest.

    John
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  14. chippie244

    chippie244 Well-Known Member

    You've been tucked up but best to swallow it now and forget it rather than go through what could be years of court cases.
    My small claims took over 2 years to go through.
     
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  15. Jimbo

    Jimbo Active Member

    Also - builder never had a contract with you and so owes you nothing...., you could take on the seller who in turn could take on the builder, as stated really not worth the bother.
     
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  16. ajohn

    ajohn Active Member

    From the OP's post I suspect some one knew that there was some sort of problem. Personally when I mentioned approaching the builder pointing out that it hadn't been done part of the reason is that maybe they did do it and there is some other reason it's gone. That's there escape route - just say it was done. There is no harm in threatening them as suggested anyway. They are responsible for the certificate. Surveyors of any sort seem to get away with problems cropping up that they should have found.

    Some solicitors will write one letter and have a chat for free, or a least the chat part to give some idea where things are legally and who is responsible. Might pay to ask the ones that handled the OP's purchase.

    Only problem with the small claims court is usually actually getting money. I had some problems with concreting and asked a concrete consultant for an opinion. Had to wait until he was in my area but he did it for free and mentioned that the best thing to do with small claims is to express doubts about receiving what ever is due and ask the court to collect it. As he put it, they don't mess about, if not forthcoming they send the bailiffs in. :( Didn't help in my case. Turned out to be one of those people who don't exist driving around in a brand new 4x4 that he had no intention of paying for. Pays for everything he needs in cash etc. Also good at finding numbers that should exist in certain street but don't. Chase banks on payment details and they just say can't due to freedom of information act.

    John
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  17. goldenboy

    goldenboy Well-Known Member

    Caveat Emptor.

    Should have been picked up. Wasnt. You will have to live with it.
     
  18. ajohn

    ajohn Active Member

    I think it's always worth while having a bit of a go at things like this as it might cause the person that has caused my grief a bit of it too. What I suggested doesn't take long to do at all. The only question really is who to chase. A solicitor should be able to point some one in the right direction and may even offer to handle it which will cost but the main thing is who is responsible.

    John
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  19. IWANTBLUE

    IWANTBLUE New Member

    Whilst this is true, they did have an obligation to complete the works covered under the completion certificate to the regulations surely? but your 2nd and 3rd points are also taken on board :)

    Yes, this has become very apparent...

    Ref the builder, with the suggestion above in red I was reticent to approach the builder until I knew some idea of my 'rights' or general process in such cases.I am also well aware that the builder 'despite it being 'wrong', may have been instructed not to complete the insulation.



    Have been repeatedly told this in various ways above, points well taken, I have the answers I needed to gain some 'viewpoint' and having had a new builder assure me it's not a big Job, likelihood

    will be to complete it and then see what happens regarding recompense.

    THANKS ALL ! will drop a post of the final outcome .




    Once I have spoken to the builder and Building Control Service manager (wasn't available Friday) I will consider whether any action is viable/worth it
     
  20. Jimbo

    Jimbo Active Member

    I’d be careful about involving building control tbh. There may be some design details that prevent it meeting the required U value.

    For example it might need between and celotex under the joists, if there is insufficient clearance for ventilation at the eaves. In that case it means new ceiling, less headroom, massive mess.

    If the space is accessible I would suggest DIYing normal loft insulation roll or pay a local builder cash to do it.
     

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