C
chippie244
Guest
Very simple post. I just want answers in your own words. No links. No gifs. Just your own opinions.
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It would be dishonest to say claim that the consequences of Brexit are entirely negative. Every cloud-cuckoo-land contains a silver lining.
I may agree that Brexit is a net negative, but it’d be dishonest to pretend it’s all negative. I’m going to (naively) assume this post isn’t a trap and we’re actually going to discuss some of the benefits.
I know most positives have a yeah-but, or then-what-about. But this is to discuss the positives as though we were intelligent and civil?
Some positives.
Nearly 9B saving pa (once divorce bill settled). It’s not a lot, but it is something.
Some goods become much cheaper. Once we leave fortress Europe we don’t have their tarrifs. Some goods have high tarrifs to protect other EU countries (usually food). We don’t grow oranges, but Spain does. EU tarrifs protect orange producers by making them more expensive. This applies to many products - oranges are not the only fruit.
Some third world countries benefit. Less trade with the EU means more trade with less developed nations. Trade>aid.
Option for weaker employee rights. You may not like this, but it can’t be denied that some will find this a benefit.
Less EU anxiety. Many people just didn’t like being members of the EU. It can’t be argued with. It’s a matter of taste. This could be the most important one - one that no remainer can really argue with.
Weird one now. I heard (on radio 4) that some young women felt it was more difficult to find a mate when competing with (what they felt were) prettier east European women. Mingers have votes too.
Flippant one now. The Express and Mail will have fewer things to exaggerate and lie about. Fewer scapegoats has to be a good thing.
Demographic. Immigrants tend to be young and consequently more fertile. This puts demographic pressure on certain important resources. Schools, maternity and paediatric services, pub beer gardens.
I won’t say “sovereignty”. It’s a word that most people use without seeming to really understand. It’s played like a trump card... in a game of chess.
Thank you b2It would be dishonest to say claim that the consequences of Brexit are entirely negative. Every cloud-cuckoo-land contains a silver lining.
I may agree that Brexit is a net negative, but it’d be dishonest to pretend it’s all negative. I’m going to (naively) assume this post isn’t a trap and we’re actually going to discuss some of the benefits.
I know most positives have a yeah-but, or then-what-about. But this is to discuss the positives as though we were intelligent and civil?
Some positives.
Nearly 9B saving pa (once divorce bill settled). It’s not a lot, but it is something.
Some goods become much cheaper. Once we leave fortress Europe we don’t have their tarrifs. Some goods have high tarrifs to protect other EU countries (usually food). We don’t grow oranges, but Spain does. EU tarrifs protect orange producers by making them more expensive. This applies to many products - oranges are not the only fruit.
Some third world countries benefit. Less trade with the EU means more trade with less developed nations. Trade>aid.
Option for weaker employee rights. You may not like this, but it can’t be denied that some will find this a benefit.
Less EU anxiety. Many people just didn’t like being members of the EU. It can’t be argued with. It’s a matter of taste. This could be the most important one - one that no remainer can really argue with.
Weird one now. I heard (on radio 4) that some young women felt it was more difficult to find a mate when competing with (what they felt were) prettier east European women. Mingers have votes too.
Flippant one now. The Express and Mail will have fewer things to exaggerate and lie about. Fewer scapegoats has to be a good thing.
Demographic. Immigrants tend to be young and consequently more fertile. This puts demographic pressure on certain important resources. Schools, maternity and paediatric services, pub beer gardens.
I won’t say “sovereignty”. It’s a word that most people use without seeming to really understand. It’s played like a trump card... in a game of chess.
I agree with all of btiw's points but will add sovereignty.
Regaining the ability to set our own laws and not having to bow to the ECJ. I expect some people will be disappointed by the level of sovereignty we achieve because for trade purposes, it makes sense that our laws are to a certain degree aligned with those of the eu, and of course if there is a trade dispute, the ECJ and the International Court will have some say on the outcome, domestic matters would be a different thing altogether.
Immigration: That's here to stay as it has been for thousands of years, but we would have a greater level of control on the numbers, we do need immigration and there are net benefits, but a flooded labour market has a downward effect on wages, and while there are extraordinarily high levels of unemployment in large swathes of Europe, the uk is too attractive a destination. We would regain 'some' control, I suspect not total control.
Tariffs and prices. The EU is quite protectionist, goods produced in the eu are by and large, expensive. Goods coming from the far east are subject to high tariffs, despite these high tariffs I can buy a Makita combi drill cheaper than a Bosch, and having previously owned both I've always been happy with Makita (sorry KIAB).
I recently bought mrs filly a Hyundai, she did test drive a golf and without any input from me, went for the Hyundai. In theory these makes should become cheaper still, whether they do or not remains to be seen but in theory they should.
Security. I know we've never been part of the Schengen area but the open doors in Europe has had an adverse effect on security all over Europe including here. Surely that's not a good thing.
We will still be tied to Europe via the UN, NATO and I daresay numerous other organisations, we won't be jumping off a cliff or casting ourselves adrift into the atlantic as some remainers like to portray.
I think there will be exciting possibilities for the future, then again, I might be wrong.
Thank you filly.I agree with all of btiw's points but will add sovereignty.
Regaining the ability to set our own laws and not having to bow to the ECJ. I expect some people will be disappointed by the level of sovereignty we achieve because for trade purposes, it makes sense that our laws are to a certain degree aligned with those of the eu, and of course if there is a trade dispute, the ECJ and the International Court will have some say on the outcome, domestic matters would be a different thing altogether.
Immigration: That's here to stay as it has been for thousands of years, but we would have a greater level of control on the numbers, we do need immigration and there are net benefits, but a flooded labour market has a downward effect on wages, and while there are extraordinarily high levels of unemployment in large swathes of Europe, the uk is too attractive a destination. We would regain 'some' control, I suspect not total control.
Tariffs and prices. The EU is quite protectionist, goods produced in the eu are by and large, expensive. Goods coming from the far east are subject to high tariffs, despite these high tariffs I can buy a Makita combi drill cheaper than a Bosch, and having previously owned both I've always been happy with Makita (sorry KIAB).
I recently bought mrs filly a Hyundai, she did test drive a golf and without any input from me, went for the Hyundai. In theory these makes should become cheaper still, whether they do or not remains to be seen but in theory they should.
Security. I know we've never been part of the Schengen area but the open doors in Europe has had an adverse effect on security all over Europe including here. Surely that's not a good thing.
We will still be tied to Europe via the UN, NATO and I daresay numerous other organisations, we won't be jumping off a cliff or casting ourselves adrift into the atlantic as some remainers like to portray.
I think there will be exciting possibilities for the future, then again, I might be wrong.
Thank you teabreak.It's really ****** off Brussels!
Can't stand the organisation or the vegetable
Shush Devs.
You can't still be drunk facs
'Sovereignty' - could you provide some examples please, Filly, so that we can understand the actual sovereignarial benefits we should get from Brexit in this regard?
And be sure to qualify any of your examples with how this presumed gain in sovereignty will compare to what we then have to negotiate away when we go on to deal with the rest of the world. Or again with the EU.
(sic)
Come on DA, Surely a trade deal is just that, all to do with trade. Nothing to do with sovereignty. Now if in the future the USA or the EU expect us to change our laws in their favour, then our negotiating team could just walk away. Give us a few examples of what we would have to negotiate away, sovereignty wise.And be sure to qualify any of your examples with how this presumed gain in sovereignty will compare to what we then have to negotiate away when we go on to deal with the rest of the world. Or again with the EU.
Come on DA, Surely a trade deal is just that, all to do with trade. Nothing to do with sovereignty. Now if in the future the USA or the EU expect us to change our laws in their favour, then our negotiating team could just walk away. Give us a few examples of what we would have to negotiate away, sovereignty wise.