BREXIT, Who Is Laughing Now?

[Mr. Handyandy]

We've all heard huffily-said remarks like "Well, I hope your child doesn't ever need their help!" when something like the ambulance or fire service is being cut back by a council. What the person really means is "You complete bar-steward for voting to cut our services - I hope you're the next one who needs it - and suffers because of it!"

Perhaps this woman was being a tad too honest about what she felt...

You cannot say that. You have no idea what the person really means. You don't seem to have a grasp of real life.

What the person likely REALLY means, is that when he needs help and it isn't there, perhaps he would then realise what an utter barsteward he has been!

 

[Deleted member 164349]

They are the same thing an MP holds a seat in parliament, Oh dear dig yourself outta that one?? are you sure you know the difference and still not response to my question

Ok, i think you have just pointed out you dont understand the british system you have voted for.

If you dont understand what you are voting for or against, what right have you got to influence my familes future?

Its easy to read your voting policy when its on the side of a bus i guess

 

[Deleted member 164349]

Maybe you should re read another time? what way did I refer to any part of the current government, only about current members of parliament? And you didn't tell me how our "democratic system" was a good representation of the British public?

You dont like the voting system in this country? i can understand that

I guess you also dont like how mep's are elected? i can understand that.

So, what system do you want? i don't understand that

 

[longboat]

I couldn't disagree more.

Yes, that is what people saw in Farage. But it's not even Farage's agenda - he is pure far right wing, and this anti-EU thing is just one part of his anti-anything that isn't middle-class, low tax, low benefit, privatised 'English' thing. Give free reign to those who already have it, and stuff those who are struggling at the bottom.

He does not truly speak for the people he tricked into voting his way.

Does Farage speak for you, Longs? Does Trump speak to your heart?

In both cases I understand why many people are attracted by what they say, but it doesn't paint these people in a very good light.

Forgive them - they do not understand what they are doing.

I couldn't disagree more.

Yes, that is what people saw in Farage. But it's not even Farage's agenda - he is pure far right wing, and this anti-EU thing is just one part of his anti-anything that isn't middle-class, low tax, low benefit, privatised 'English' thing. Give free reign to those who already have it, and stuff those who are struggling at the bottom.

He does not truly speak for the people he tricked into voting his way.

Does Farage speak for you, Longs? Does Trump speak to your heart?

In both cases I understand why many people are attracted by what they say, but it doesn't paint these people in a very good light.

Forgive them - they do not understand what they are doing.

Believe it or not, but I've never heard or seen anything more than the caricatured depiction of, Farage, as was and still is the usual image projected by the media.
You never see a normal expression on the man's face, do ya?
I did see a clip on youtube however of his victory speech in the EP,,,,,, and I don't know about you, but, I got the impression that, considering he'd spent 17yrs campaigning for the, UK to leave the EU, it wasn't really about vested interests, as such, but more of a determination too show the British public how they've gradually given in, and capitulated with the, EU.

 

[SWBUILDERS]

Most of the electorate - you included - hadn't a scooby about what they were actually doing. The actual implications of their desire to leave.

They wanted to give the finger to the 'establishment' and convinced themselves - with the help of the likes of Farage, tho' it took little effort - that 'Leaving' was a cure-all. Completely missing the fact that Farage is the epitome of the 'establishment' - a high-earning banker who doesn't give a stuff about the proles and is actively desiring a privatised NHS. For starters...

He just knew what strings to pull for the mindless masses to jump to his tune and give him what he wanted. (And then he went to the US to help Trump do the same).

You should have a bead of sweat forming on your temples at this stage at how utterly gullible you've been. What a clown.

You will deny this, of course - but it's as clear as a clear thing.

Don't even pretend that you or the characters in the Question Time audience or most of the Leavers in this country and virtually all of the Leavers on this forum have a bludy clue what this is all about.

Noty a smattering of an iota.

There you go again assuming your of a higher intellect, looking down on the plebs, such a treat you are.

Ok, i think you have just pointed out you dont understand the british system you have voted for.

If you dont understand what you are voting for or against, what right have you got to influence my familes future?

Its easy to read your voting policy when its on the side of a bus i guess

are you of sound mind? When there is a general election the country is devided into constituencies and then one person is elected and given a seat in parliament this then they become an MP!!!! When parliament is dissolved the process happens again it's not difficult to understand, if you think think this happens in a different way please elaborate???

Response to your question is I think there should be a electoral system based on the proportion of the votes received from each party so safe seats are eradicated and the majority of the population are reprisented (also not difficult to understand)

 

[Deleted member 33931]

Believe it or not, but I've never heard or seen anything more than the caricatured depiction of, Farage, as was and still is the usual image projected by the media.
You never see a normal expression on the man's face, do ya?
I did see a clip on youtube however of his victory speech in the EP,,,,,, and I don't know about you, but, I got the impression that, considering he'd spent 17yrs campaigning for the, UK to leave the EU, it wasn't really about vested interests, as such, but more of a determination too show the British public how they've gradually given in, and capitulated with the, EU.

His victory speech - was that the "You ain't laughing now..." one? Did you cringe? I hope so. My jaw hit the floor at his crassness.

C'mon, Longs, you know who the main Leave leaders are, and who was financing them. Their far-right-wing agenda is as clear as a clear thing. And the people who voted for them are not those they care about.

This is exactly - exactly - what is happening in the US with Trump. It defies belief that half the electorate over there could possibly vote for the guy, and it's even more incredible to see who is voting for him - those he doesn't give a rat's curse about.

It is weepingly awful irony.

 

[Deleted member 33931]

There you go again assuming your of a higher intellect, looking down on the plebs, such a treat you are.

It's nothing to do with me assuming anything. It is a pure statement of fact - as expressed by the exit poll information. The results of the voting demographic is available for all to read. It holds no surprises. At all.

I ain't going to apologise for me - and the vast majority of my fellow Remainers - being significantly brighter and better informed than the vast majority of Leave voters. After all, it is precisely because they were poorly informed that most voted 'oot'.

Now, if I can only get my big head through this doorway, I'll be orf to bed.

'Night.

 

[philthespark]

I'll only say one last thing regarding this situation, I voted leave for the following reasons,
1) I don't agree with Europe telling us how to run our country,how we deal with our criminals is our business,our food is our business,and our jobs are our business

2) I don't agree with any other country telling us how many people we must take or allow into our country.

Regarding point number one,most other countries in the world deal with their criminals as they see fit,deal drugs in the far east and it's the death penalty,murder or rape someone in the United States and it's a very long time in jail,do the crime do the time! Nobody tells these countries how to deal with their criminals,yet over here we get a murderer who gets 25 years and thinks to himself"well that's a bit harsh" he goes off to the ECHR and they say "oh no it's against his human rights,15 years max".Now what about the rights of his victim or their family? I've always said that if you execute a murderer you can be damn sure he won't do it again!
With all the food shortages how can the EU say you can't sell a cucumber because it's too bent,or a banana is too straight? food is food right,once it's been chewed up and comes out the other end a straight banana looks identical to a bent one!
I know a chap who has a business doing fruit ripening equipment,it's sold all over the world,now he had to pay a lot of money to be accredited to certain standards to comply with EU law,unfortunately as he found out this didn't help him.To sell his equipment over here he's got to be say ISO1234,which costs say £500K, to sell in France he has to have TUV456,which costs another £300K to sell in Holland it,s ISO 789,another £300K,in Belgium it's a different rule and more money to lay out.Now that's hardly a united Europe is it? Surely common sense would dictate one rule for all of Europe but no,not in his case.

Point 2 and I know this is controversial but hey wow,we're constantly being told we haven't enough money for things for our own people that we already have here yet we can apparently find money for people from abroad.A single man finds himself homeless,nobody will help him,he's no priority,we haven't enough housing stock for everyone (I know I've been there) they bring/allow foreigners in and hey presto they can find them accomodation!How? There was the much publicised first train that arrived from Europe carrying "refugees" from war torn countries,did anyone notice they were all young males? did anyone notice that most had smart phones? Now hang on a minute,charity begins at home,how can we honestly find homes for people from other countries when we cannot house our own people? Yet we are told by Europe that we MUST allow these people into our country,not only that but we have no idea who they are,there was a guy came over from eastern europe and murdered a schoolgirl,he killed himself later.He'd been done for murder in his own country yet was allowed over here!Now we are in the middle of an argument with France over who should take all the migrants from the camps in Calais,they don't want them and neither do we.Now they are not here ,yet,so surely if they entered France illegally then it's up to France to deal with the problem,send them back to their own country,I doubt that most of them are genuine refugee's anyway.
We are at risk of being overrun by a plague of locusts,we have what we have because the vast majority of people have worked to build up our country,a lot of people died during the war to protect this small island when Hitler was trying to take over,yet look at these so called refugee's.They run away from their own country,they refuse to fight,they tell stories of mass murder,of women being raped,children being slaughtered,yet they abandon them.I ask you all this before any of you make comments,if there were marauding gangs running down your street hell bent on raping your wives and murdering your children,how many of you would turn and run? Not many I'll bet,no,you'd stand and fight like men,defend your homes and families.Ok some would lose their lives but you'd make a stand for what you hold dear.Not so these "refugees" they dessert their wives and children,abandon them to whatever fate awaits them,then when they land here they don't want to integrate,obey our laws or "play the game".They want to take all they can,often behave like animals with no respect or regard for the law then,when they've brought our country down to it's knees and we can give no more they'll move on,exactly like a plague of locusts,the same applies to a lot of the eastern europeans,how many of them are commiting fraud,stealing cable and metals,commiting violent crimes? Yes I know we have our own criminals,and that's the point,we've quite enough trash in our own society,without the EU forcing us to import more!

 

[joinerjohn1]

It was a very poorly judged comment from her.

We all know what she was trying to say, but what she actually said was very unfortunate.

No DA we know exactly what she said.. Not the sort of people we want working for our beloved NHS (and I do hope her bosses were watching too and haul her in the office for a nice little chat on Monday morning)

 

[SWBUILDERS]

I'll only say one last thing regarding this situation, I voted leave for the following reasons,
1) I don't agree with Europe telling us how to run our country,how we deal with our criminals is our business,our food is our business,and our jobs are our business

2) I don't agree with any other country telling us how many people we must take or allow into our country.

Regarding point number one,most other countries in the world deal with their criminals as they see fit,deal drugs in the far east and it's the death penalty,murder or rape someone in the United States and it's a very long time in jail,do the crime do the time! Nobody tells these countries how to deal with their criminals,yet over here we get a murderer who gets 25 years and thinks to himself"well that's a bit harsh" he goes off to the ECHR and they say "oh no it's against his human rights,15 years max".Now what about the rights of his victim or their family? I've always said that if you execute a murderer you can be damn sure he won't do it again!
With all the food shortages how can the EU say you can't sell a cucumber because it's too bent,or a banana is too straight? food is food right,once it's been chewed up and comes out the other end a straight banana looks identical to a bent one!
I know a chap who has a business doing fruit ripening equipment,it's sold all over the world,now he had to pay a lot of money to be accredited to certain standards to comply with EU law,unfortunately as he found out this didn't help him.To sell his equipment over here he's got to be say ISO1234,which costs say £500K, to sell in France he has to have TUV456,which costs another £300K to sell in Holland it,s ISO 789,another £300K,in Belgium it's a different rule and more money to lay out.Now that's hardly a united Europe is it? Surely common sense would dictate one rule for all of Europe but no,not in his case.

Point 2 and I know this is controversial but hey wow,we're constantly being told we haven't enough money for things for our own people that we already have here yet we can apparently find money for people from abroad.A single man finds himself homeless,nobody will help him,he's no priority,we haven't enough housing stock for everyone (I know I've been there) they bring/allow foreigners in and hey presto they can find them accomodation!How? There was the much publicised first train that arrived from Europe carrying "refugees" from war torn countries,did anyone notice they were all young males? did anyone notice that most had smart phones? Now hang on a minute,charity begins at home,how can we honestly find homes for people from other countries when we cannot house our own people? Yet we are told by Europe that we MUST allow these people into our country,not only that but we have no idea who they are,there was a guy came over from eastern europe and murdered a schoolgirl,he killed himself later.He'd been done for murder in his own country yet was allowed over here!Now we are in the middle of an argument with France over who should take all the migrants from the camps in Calais,they don't want them and neither do we.Now they are not here ,yet,so surely if they entered France illegally then it's up to France to deal with the problem,send them back to their own country,I doubt that most of them are genuine refugee's anyway.
We are at risk of being overrun by a plague of locusts,we have what we have because the vast majority of people have worked to build up our country,a lot of people died during the war to protect this small island when Hitler was trying to take over,yet look at these so called refugee's.They run away from their own country,they refuse to fight,they tell stories of mass murder,of women being raped,children being slaughtered,yet they abandon them.I ask you all this before any of you make comments,if there were marauding gangs running down your street hell bent on raping your wives and murdering your children,how many of you would turn and run? Not many I'll bet,no,you'd stand and fight like men,defend your homes and families.Ok some would lose their lives but you'd make a stand for what you hold dear.Not so these "refugees" they dessert their wives and children,abandon them to whatever fate awaits them,then when they land here they don't want to integrate,obey our laws or "play the game".They want to take all they can,often behave like animals with no respect or regard for the law then,when they've brought our country down to it's knees and we can give no more they'll move on,exactly like a plague of locusts,the same applies to a lot of the eastern europeans,how many of them are commiting fraud,stealing cable and metals,commiting violent crimes? Yes I know we have our own criminals,and that's the point,we've quite enough trash in our own society,without the EU forcing us to import more!

Great post, but unfortunately it will fall on deaf ears, there is no reasoning with logical arguments to the remainers on here as they seem to have utter contempt for the actual people of this country in favour for people trying to in lots of case enter the UK illegally I've tried to get them to understand this is how most if not all of the people I know feel but they won't ecept it and then just call you a nazi

 

[joinerjohn1]

Point 2 and I know this is controversial but hey wow,we're constantly being told we haven't enough money for things for our own people that we already have here yet we can apparently find money for people from abroad.A single man finds himself homeless,nobody will help him,he's no priority,we haven't enough housing stock for everyone (I know I've been there) they bring/allow foreigners in and hey presto they can find them accomodation!How? There was the much publicised first train that arrived from Europe carrying "refugees" from war torn countries,did anyone notice they were all young males? did anyone notice that most had smart phones? Now hang on a minute,charity begins at home,how can we honestly find homes for people from other countries when we cannot house our own people? Yet we are told by Europe that we MUST allow these people into our country,not only that but we have no idea who they are,there was a guy came over from eastern europe and murdered a schoolgirl,he killed himself later.He'd been done for murder in his own country yet was allowed over here!Now we are in the middle of an argument with France over who should take all the migrants from the camps in Calais,they don't want them and neither do we.Now they are not here ,yet,so surely if they entered France illegally then it's up to France to deal with the problem,send them back to their own country,I doubt that most of them are genuine refugee's anyway.
We are at risk of being overrun by a plague of locusts,we have what we have because the vast majority of people have worked to build up our country,a lot of people died during the war to protect this small island when Hitler was trying to take over,yet look at these so called refugee's.They run away from their own country,they refuse to fight,they tell stories of mass murder,of women being raped,children being slaughtered,yet they abandon them.I ask you all this before any of you make comments,if there were marauding gangs running down your street hell bent on raping your wives and murdering your children,how many of you would turn and run? Not many I'll bet,no,you'd stand and fight like men,defend your homes and families.Ok some would lose their lives but you'd make a stand for what you hold dear.Not so these "refugees" they dessert their wives and children,abandon them to whatever fate awaits them,then when they land here they don't want to integrate,obey our laws or "play the game".They want to take all they can,often behave like animals with no respect or regard for the law then,when they've brought our country down to it's knees and we can give no more they'll move on,exactly like a plague of locusts,the same applies to a lot of the eastern europeans,how many of them are commiting fraud,stealing cable and metals,commiting violent crimes? Yes I know we have our own criminals,and that's the point,we've quite enough trash in our own society,without the EU forcing us to import more!

Come on Phil, you know by now DA will say that none of this happens in real life, It only happens in certain newspapers. Videos showing the behaviour of these "people" only appear on certain anti EU websites, so they just can't be believed. Remember DA stated that these "people" are highly educated (yeah right) He said they have a need for smartphones to keep in touch with those left behind, via skype etc (yeah the internet infrastructure in Mosul is the best in the world innit,they get 200Mb/s on a good day) Don't worry about the women left behind to be raped, you know there'll be plenty of that going off over here soon (if the news from Cologne last New Years Eve is to be believed,, but that won't be believed,, it only happened in the newspapers didn't it)
Yep DA just doesn't live in the same world me and you (and the rest of the UK) live in.. North Devon must be some sort of Utopia. I can't wait till North Devon blocks a nice trade deal with the USA or China too (probably because they're worried the trade deal might mean the local school janitor has to be made redundant.)

 

[Deleted member 33931]

I'll only say one last thing regarding this situation, I voted leave for the following reasons,
1) I don't agree with Europe telling us how to run our country,how we deal with our criminals is our business,our food is our business,and our jobs are our business

2) I don't agree with any other country telling us how many people we must take or allow into our country.

Regarding point number one,most other countries in the world deal with their criminals as they see fit,deal drugs in the far east and it's the death penalty,murder or rape someone in the United States and it's a very long time in jail,do the crime do the time! Nobody tells these countries how to deal with their criminals,yet over here we get a murderer who gets 25 years and thinks to himself"well that's a bit harsh" he goes off to the ECHR and they say "oh no it's against his human rights,15 years max".Now what about the rights of his victim or their family? I've always said that if you execute a murderer you can be damn sure he won't do it again!
With all the food shortages how can the EU say you can't sell a cucumber because it's too bent,or a banana is too straight? food is food right,once it's been chewed up and comes out the other end a straight banana looks identical to a bent one!
I know a chap who has a business doing fruit ripening equipment,it's sold all over the world,now he had to pay a lot of money to be accredited to certain standards to comply with EU law,unfortunately as he found out this didn't help him.To sell his equipment over here he's got to be say ISO1234,which costs say £500K, to sell in France he has to have TUV456,which costs another £300K to sell in Holland it,s ISO 789,another £300K,in Belgium it's a different rule and more money to lay out.Now that's hardly a united Europe is it? Surely common sense would dictate one rule for all of Europe but no,not in his case.

Point 2 and I know this is controversial but hey wow,we're constantly being told we haven't enough money for things for our own people that we already have here yet we can apparently find money for people from abroad.A single man finds himself homeless,nobody will help him,he's no priority,we haven't enough housing stock for everyone (I know I've been there) they bring/allow foreigners in and hey presto they can find them accomodation!How? There was the much publicised first train that arrived from Europe carrying "refugees" from war torn countries,did anyone notice they were all young males? did anyone notice that most had smart phones? Now hang on a minute,charity begins at home,how can we honestly find homes for people from other countries when we cannot house our own people? Yet we are told by Europe that we MUST allow these people into our country,not only that but we have no idea who they are,there was a guy came over from eastern europe and murdered a schoolgirl,he killed himself later.He'd been done for murder in his own country yet was allowed over here!Now we are in the middle of an argument with France over who should take all the migrants from the camps in Calais,they don't want them and neither do we.Now they are not here ,yet,so surely if they entered France illegally then it's up to France to deal with the problem,send them back to their own country,I doubt that most of them are genuine refugee's anyway.
We are at risk of being overrun by a plague of locusts,we have what we have because the vast majority of people have worked to build up our country,a lot of people died during the war to protect this small island when Hitler was trying to take over,yet look at these so called refugee's.They run away from their own country,they refuse to fight,they tell stories of mass murder,of women being raped,children being slaughtered,yet they abandon them.I ask you all this before any of you make comments,if there were marauding gangs running down your street hell bent on raping your wives and murdering your children,how many of you would turn and run? Not many I'll bet,no,you'd stand and fight like men,defend your homes and families.Ok some would lose their lives but you'd make a stand for what you hold dear.Not so these "refugees" they dessert their wives and children,abandon them to whatever fate awaits them,then when they land here they don't want to integrate,obey our laws or "play the game".They want to take all they can,often behave like animals with no respect or regard for the law then,when they've brought our country down to it's knees and we can give no more they'll move on,exactly like a plague of locusts,the same applies to a lot of the eastern europeans,how many of them are commiting fraud,stealing cable and metals,commiting violent crimes? Yes I know we have our own criminals,and that's the point,we've quite enough trash in our own society,without the EU forcing us to import more!

I'm pleased you made this post, Phil - and I'm also pleased that Scott and JJ approve of it. No surprise there. (And the claim - delivered with no intentional irony - that it'll (fnurrrr) 'fall on deaf ears' through lack of 'reasoning' (fnurrrr even more...)

Because your post does sum up the level of reasoning behind very many of the Leave votes, and how there's very little substance to them when examined.

1) We - and our fellow EU countries - and most other civilised countries in the world, deal with criminality in a similar way - starting with the point that all humans are equal and should be treated with dignity. Even the ones who commit crimes. For the simple reason that if we don't treat even these people with dignity, what right do we have to punish them for having treated someone else without dignity? The likes of Mr Ha and Scott (no doubt) with shout that "they've lost their rights by committing that crime." and I can understand where they are coming from. But once you allow judges or juries to think "Hmmm, that was a BAD crime - I think they should no lose THIS amount of human rights because they don't deserve it..." you can hopefully see where this is heading?

And that is to places like the Middle East with its death penalties (in particularly barbaric ways) or amputations or whatever. Is that what you want? Surely not.

Mr Ha will no doubt shout (he always shouts...) "Don't be stupid - I'm not talking about cutting their hands off! You FOOL! I just mean they should live in small cages with bare stone floors and have porridge all day and not be allowed to sit or perhaps have a spike or maybe even put electrodes on it or..." before he descends into a slavering foam-mouthed fit...

So hopefully you can see that there can really only be ONE standard for human rights - and that is 'we are ALL equal and should ALL be treated with respect. If you are a crim, you'll get locked up, obviously...

We abide by AGREED human rights legislation in this country - we told the EU that these issues should be based on shared values and be universal across our countries. We agreed to this - as so we should. It is NOT a case of the EU telling us to do something we didn't agree with; it IS a case of us getting it wrong and the EU having to tell us to get it right. And amen to that.

And let me tell you something, Phil - you should really thank your lucky stars every single day that you live under this kind of protection and not somewhere like the Middle East.

Now, if you have a specific or individual criminal case to bring on here as an example of how warped the EU's thinking is on this issue, then please do so so's we can examine it in detail and see if it holds up to scrutiny. I don't believe it will.

As for bananas and cucumbers and that sort of malarkey, really Phil?! You need to read up some more on these issues - I'm frankly astonished that some people are still trying to peddle these silly lines. Again, this is what I mean when I say that very many Leavers were seriously misled and ill-informed.

And you "know a guy..." do you? And from that you decide that the EU is a pita? When, really, you should know that being a member of the EU has EASED trade between us by PHENOMENAL proportions, and as further trade deals are made betwixt the EU and the rest of the world, this will only increase further.

So, sorry, Phil - I believe you are completely wrong on all counts.

2) Again, peddling misinformation. You are happy to believe that EU citizens coming in here have greater benefits than the indigenous people? No, they don't. They are the same. As we are all EU citizens. And you can test this - go and move to a different EU country as you are entitled to do (for the moment).

As for refugees, I would consider that as part of our moral duty as relatively well-off and very fortunate human beings. Yes, there is a cost to this both financial and social. Yes more resources should be provided to help. (But we take a fraction compared to some other countries - look it up).

You can cite individual cases if you like - crowded inner-city areas, separation between the immigrants and the indigenous people, instances of some individuals being highly unpleasant people. But I have to ask you, Phil - why would you want to cite unrepresentative individual cases to try and make a point about the 'immigrant' situation? When JoT - and I - have pointed out time and time again that the people coming in to our country are on average better educated and almost certainly more decent citizens than the average indigenous Brit.

And they have contributed overwhelmingly positively to our economy. And if we welcome the relative few who come on to our shores with humanity and a warm smile, they will become even better civilians.

But imagine if you, having witnessed the devastation & cruelty in your home country (some of the tales almost defy belief - have a search if you can bear it) decide to risk it all for a better future for your family (and what is more important in this world than your own family?) to have a chance to live in a civilised country - one you have considered all your life as being a beacon of generosity, tolerance and human rights - only to turn up and find the vitriol and hatred peddled by the likes of the BNP, NF and Farage - and swallowed whole by hoards on ignorant braying thugs - how would you feel?

What level of betrayal would you feel when even the Great British people turn out also to be suspicious, racist, unkind, hate-filled?

 

[Deleted member 33931]

No DA we know exactly what she said.. Not the sort of people we want working for our beloved NHS (and I do hope her bosses were watching too and haul her in the office for a nice little chat on Monday morning)

If only I could believe for a nano-second that you feel anything other than gloat for what that woman said.

Your beloved NHS?!

Ask your leaders, the liars you brayingly followed - Farage, Gove, Johnson, Redwood, IDS, Banks, et all - what they want (and will, given the chance) to do to your 'beloved' NHS.

Twit.

 

[SWBUILDERS]

more of the vile abuse coming from remainers,

I'm pleased you made this post, Phil - and I'm also pleased that Scott and JJ approve of it. No surprise there. (And the claim - delivered with no intentional irony - that it'll (fnurrrr) 'fall on deaf ears' through lack of 'reasoning' (fnurrrr even more...)

Because your post does sum up the level of reasoning behind very many of the Leave votes, and how there's very little substance to them when examined.

1) We - and our fellow EU countries - and most other civilised countries in the world, deal with criminality in a similar way - starting with the point that all humans are equal and should be treated with dignity. Even the ones who commit crimes. For the simple reason that if we don't treat even these people with dignity, what right do we have to punish them for having treated someone else without dignity? The likes of Mr Ha and Scott (no doubt) with shout that "they've lost their rights by committing that crime." and I can understand where they are coming from. But once you allow judges or juries to think "Hmmm, that was a BAD crime - I think they should no lose THIS amount of human rights because they don;t deserve it..." you can hopefully see where this is heading?

And that is to places like the Middle East with its death penalties (in particularly barbaric ways) or amputations or whatever. Is that what you want? Surely not.

We abide by AGREED human rights legislation in this country - we told the EU that these issues should be based on shared values and be universal across our countries. And let me tell you something, Phil - you should really thank your lucky stars every single you live under this kind of protection and not somewhere like the Middle East.

Now, if you have a PARTICULAR criminal case to bring on here as an example of how warped the EU's thinking is on this issue, then please do so so's we can examine it in detail and see if it holds up to scrutiny.

As for bananas and cucumbers and that sort of malarkey, really Phil?! You need to read up some more on these issues - I'm frankly astonished that some people are still trying to peddle these silly links. (Again, this is what I mean when I say that very many Leavers were seriously misled and ill-informed.)

And you "know a guy..." do you? And from that you decide that the EU is a pita? When, really, you should know that being a member of the EU has EASED trade between us by PHENOMENAL proportions, and as further trade deals are made betwixt the EU and the rest of the world, this will only increase further.

So, sorry, Phil - I believe you are completely wrong on all counts.

2) Again, peddling misinformation. You are happy to believe that EU citizens coming in here have greater benefits than the indigenous people? No, they don't. They are the same. As we are all EU citizens. And you can test this - go and move to a different EU country as you are entitled to do (for the moment).

As for refugees, I would consider that as part of our moral duty as well-off and very fortunate human beings. Yes, there is a cost to this both financial and social. Yes more resources should be provided to help. (But we take a fraction compared to some other countries - look it up).

You can cite individual cases if you like - crowded inner-city areas, separation between the immigrants and the indigenous people, instances of some individuals being highly unpleasant people. But I have to ask you, Phil - why would you want to cite unrepresentative individual cases to try and make a point about the 'immigrant' situation? When JoT - and I - have pointed out time and time again that the people coming in to our country are on average better educated and almost certainly more decent citizens than the average indigenous Brit.

And they have contributed overwhelmingly positively to our economy. And if we welcome the relative few who come on to our shores with humanity and a warm smile, they will become even better civilians.

But imagine if you, having witnessed the devastation & cruelty in your home country (some of the tales almost defy belief - have a search if you can bear it) decide to risk it all for a better future for your family (and what is more important in this world than your own family?) to have a chance to live in a civilised country - one you have considered all your life as being a beacon of generosity, tolerance and human rights - only to turn up and find the vitriol and hatred peddled by the likes of the BNP, NF and Farage - and swallowed whole by hoards on ignorant braying thugs - how would you feel?

What level of betrayal would you feel when even the Great British people turn out also to be suspicious, racist, unkind, hate-filled?

where is your evidence to suggest these people

are better educated than indids, prove it how could you possibly know when the vast majority have destroyed there identity documents, as if they don't they will be seen as not meeting asylum criteria, or do you just know some nice People that have migrated to this country in the same way you mocked Phil for knowing a guy who produced vegetables!!!

you talk of the Middle East and there culture and there appealing human rights record, do you really believe that we would start public beheadings!!! Your argument is pathetic it's common sense we will not go back to medieval practises still seen in the Middle East just no allow prisoners to vote or play computer games or watch tv or preach religious doctrine.

and to add to the human rights you pointed out these people of higher intellect, who the majority are deeply religious are the worst offenders of such human rights abuses in this country, or I suppose that honour killings, genital mutilation, arranged marriages and female denigration are what we can aspire to when we get a proper
Education?????

 

[Deleted member 33931]

more of the vile abuse coming from remainers,

where is your evidence to suggest these people

are better educated than indids, prove it how could you possibly know when the vast majority have destroyed there identity documents, as if they don't they will be seen as not meeting asylum criteria, or do you just know some nice People that have migrated to this country in the same way you mocked Phil for knowing a guy who produced vegetables!!!

you talk of the Middle East and there culture and there appealing human rights record, do you really believe that we would start public beheadings!!! Your argument is pathetic it's common sense we will not go back to medieval practises still seen in the Middle East just no allow prisoners to vote or play computer games or watch tv or preach religious doctrine.

and to add to the human rights you pointed out these people of higher intellect, who the majority are deeply religious are the worst offenders of such human rights abuses in this country, or I suppose that honour killings, genital mutilation, arranged marriages and female denigration are what we can aspire to when we get a proper
Education?????

From your first sentence: "...the vast majority have destroyed there (sic) identity documents..."

Yeah?

You know what I'm gonna say, don't you, Scott?!

Re-write that sentence stating that you honestly believe this to be this case. It's ok if you turn out to be wrong - honestly it is - provided you have actually looked in to it properly before posting it.

It is NOT ok to peddle claims that you have NOT looked in to to check their veracity.

Your second paragraph was (quite cleverly, I thought) anticipated by my comment in my thread -I expected Mr Ha to rant, but you've done it instead .

The point I clearly made - as you should know if your are literate - is that there is only ONE standard for human rights that can be followed. Anything else is not 'human rights'.

But, thanks for that all the same - as you've chust gorn on to prove that many Leavers are not very bright.

 

[Deleted member 33931]

Breaking point.

 

[Deleted member 164349]

Breaking point.

View attachment 14219

I dont deny immigration is an issue, and it should be able to be discussed. But please dont get the facts mixed up.

There are 2 sorts of immigrants basically (many many more sub divisions), european and non european.

Being in europe allows free movement between european states. That allows for you to travel easily as they can, and work where you like, as they can.

The biggest problem why we are suffering from (possibly, depending on your viewpoint) too many is the jobs being offered, low paid bulk jobs. This suits your right wing bosses, keeping wages low. That impacts on all of us, if the working man has no money to spend, your business struggles to charge correctly, not enough items are bought, etc. The cure, not easy is to increase the wages and therefore get more people to take those jobs. Too many "real" brits earn more money on benefits than they can at work, so who fills these jobs? vicious circle.

Then you get to non European immigrants. Do you seriously think that by leaving the Eu, their number will decrease? If you think about it fully, its likely to, yes, increase. Think about it, research the reasoning? Or even deny it, that is your right. You are allowed those rights.

THen a serious question. What is fascism ? Do you agree with it or support it?


Edited

This was linked to the wrong post, but it doesnt matter. t

 

[SWBUILDERS]

From your first sentence: "...the vast majority have destroyed there (sic) identity documents..."

Yeah?

You know what I'm gonna say, don't you, Scott?!

Re-write that sentence stating that you honestly believe this to be this case. It's ok if you turn out to be wrong - honestly it is - provided you have actually looked in to it properly before posting it.

It is NOT ok to peddle claims that you have NOT looked in to to check their veracity.

Your second paragraph was (quite cleverly, I thought) anticipated by my comment in my thread -I expected Mr Ha to rant, but you've done it instead .

The point I clearly made - as you should know if your are literate - is that there is only ONE standard for human rights that can be followed. Anything else is not 'human rights'.

But, thanks for that all the same - as you've chust gorn on to prove that many Leavers are not very bright.

How have you proven I am not bright? There are many factors that make up human rights, and I think the vast majority of people would be in agreement that these rights are forfeited if certain crimes are committed it is logic and Infact shows as do nearly all of your previous posts that with all your years of academia you in fact are completely lacking in the fundamentals of critical thinking

Anyhoo please expand on your evidence that these migrants are of better intelligence than indids

 

[Deleted member 164349]

There you go again assuming your of a higher intellect, looking down on the plebs, such a treat you are.

are you of sound mind? When there is a general election the country is devided into constituencies and then one person is elected and given a seat in parliament this then they become an MP!!!! When parliament is dissolved the process happens again it's not difficult to understand, if you think think this happens in a different way please elaborate???

Response to your question is I think there should be a electoral system based on the proportion of the votes received from each party so safe seats are eradicated and the majority of the population are reprisented (also not difficult to understand)

I will give you a clue.

Are you getting government, and parliament mixed up? Do you really mean, the house of commons part of parliament?

If you dont understand our system, why are you voting for it? or is your vote more a "i hate europe" protest vote?

Now, do you think mep's are elected correctly or not?

 

[Deleted member 33931]

I dont deny immigration is an issue, and it should be able to be discussed. But please dont get the facts mixed up.

There are 2 sorts of immigrants basically (many many more sub divisions), european and non european.

Being in europe allows free movement between european states. That allows for you to travel easily as they can, and work where you like, as they can.

The biggest problem why we are suffering from (possibly, depending on your viewpoint) too many is the jobs being offered, low paid bulk jobs. This suits your right wing bosses, keeping wages low. That impacts on all of us, if the working man has no money to spend, your business struggles to charge correctly, not enough items are bought, etc. The cure, not easy is to increase the wages and therefore get more people to take those jobs. Too many "real" brits earn more money on benefits than they can at work, so who fills these jobs? vicious circle.

Then you get to non European immigrants. Do you seriously think that by leaving the Eu, their number will decrease? If you think about it fully, its likely to, yes, increase. Think about it, research the reasoning? Or even deny it, that is your right. You are allowed those rights.

THen a serious question. What is fascism ? Do you agree with it or support it?

Absolutely, JoT.

Free movement for EU citizens is a right, earned by being part of the EU.

Of course, the usual suspects HATE it when 'they' come over here, but LOVE it when they go and live in Portugal or wherevs (where they usually fail to mix with the indigenous population or learn the native language... )

I would love for Mr Ha or Scott or Phil the P or Harry or JJ - those who I assume are roughly average intelligent Brits - to meet with a randomly selected Syrian refugee.

Actually, this would probably end up suiting the usual suspects well, because I suspect the Syrian would immediately try and swim back to his beleaguered country.