# Bungalow rewire

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by sweeneyuk, Apr 27, 2020.

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1. ### sweeneyukNew Member

Hello,

I am getting a bit bogged down with detail as I always try my best to meet every best practice but I am very out of practice as I have been working outside the industry for 15yrs. All help appreciated.

I am refurbishing my small 2 bed bungalow and have some questions for all the experts out there.

I have fitted a new metal 10 way consumer unit and have already run a separate 6amcb circuit for the loft mounted boiler, a 16a mcb to a general purpose & AV cupboard/ room.

I have run a ring main for the 2 bedrooms and am considering extending this for the living room or should I just run a 16a radial for living room?

My main issue is the kitchen!

Wife wants a double oven and induction hob and is the kind to have both ovens and most hobs on the go being a bit foody.

I have read on NEF site that you dont apply diversity to an induction hob, correct?

As both ovens are likely to be on at the same time I have come to conclusion I will run 2 x 6mm radials, 1 for each. Oven =6.5kw & hob 7kw, ok so far?

I have got in a muddle with regards to applying diversity to remaining kitchen appliances.

Microwave is a 800kw grill too but understand its only one at a time so consumption is rated at 1.4kw.

Washing machine=1.5kw

Dishwasher= 2 kw

Fridge/freezer=0.4kw

Wine cooler= 0.1kw

then theres the 2.2kw toaster and 3 kw kettle!

Thats 10.6Kw / 46A!!! before any other stuff is plugged in!

I've been trying to find details on how to properly diversify kitchen but only ever get the cooker calculation (on separate in my case) or the total dwelling design current.

I know it's neigh on impossible that all these will be on at the same time but what is the correct way to calculate the diversity???

I have considered running a separate 2.5mm 16a radial for the microwave and poss another for dishwasher & washing machine?

If I did this could I run just a radial to supply rest of kitchen?

Also wanted to fit the scolmore click minigrid control panel which will now have 2x 6mm for hob/oven supply, 2x2.5 for microwave &washing machine/dishwasher, 1x2.5 if radial or 2 if ring to supply remaining modules like wine cooler, fridge freezer.

I understand you can no longer have the fridge freezer on a separate cct before the rcd?

to summarise.

How do I diversify the cable calc for kitchen & should I run more ccts?

Do I put remaining kitchen on ring or radial?

Do extend rear rfc to incorporate living room or run another radial (remember all AV will be in dedicated AV cupboard on its own radial)?

Then I have the next biggy, loft insulation!

Can I lay cable over it rather than secure to joists which will result in needing 2x 10mm cooker cable (wont work with minigrid)?

Is there a way to bypass this by running cable through some plastic pipe to avoid contact with insulation?

Do I remove all insulation and have to go to extra expense of insulating rafters?

I know its a lot but all help really appreciated.

2. ### BazzaScrewfix Select

With respect. Stop now.
The rules have changed in the last 15 years.
it is a requirement that new circuits, rewire and new consumer units plus some other works must be notified to the local authority.

There are two routes:
1. Use an electrician who is a registered member of one of the competent person schemes. They can complete and certify the work and can then notify the LABC that the work is completed.

2. The DIY route: BEFORE ANY WORK STARTS you raise a building notice with the LABC and pay their fee (£200ish).. The LABC will want to inspect the work at various stages. They will expect you to design, install and test the installation in accordance with BS7671. And for you to complete the installation certificate (you’ll need a full set of calibrated test equipment to do this).

LABC used to keep electricians of their own to do the testing work, but this has all but gone now.

so...how do you plan to sort out the legal requirements for your project?

3. ### SparkielevScrewfix Select

Without any cerification it unlikely you will have any insurance cover, I never understand why people think being a spark is easy

4. ### timotayActive Member

1st Jan 2005.......lest we forget.

5. ### Deleted member 11267Guest

Yes, it has been a big money earner and gravy train for some people.

The course providers unleashing the untrained, who parted with their cash telling them incorrectly they are fit to go and rewire houses, to which the poor unsuspecting public become the victims.

The scam providers who set up off the back of part p who are raking it in on fees.

6. ### sweeneyukNew Member

I may be out of practice but I did spend 3 years doing bs3630 part 1&2. I regretfully didn’t do the inspection &testing but plan to go back soon. I may not be registered, had other main job but registered electrician friends in trade would inspect, test & sign off for me.

Just asking for advice practical solutions not the legalities but understand you’re concern.

7. ### BazzaScrewfix Select

You are obviously not familiar with the requirements now. The electrician signs to say that the work that THEY designed, installed as tested complies with BS7671. There is no signature box that includes spurious advice from an Internet forum.
if they sign it and didn’t do the work then that’s lying.
also their membership of their CPS only allows them to self-notify their own work (the legal requirement).

So, if you want to do this work, and expect one of your mates to “sign it off” then you need to have them tell you the answers to your queries. And also to install under their guidance.

sorry, as they say on Dragon’s Den “I’m out”.

8. ### unphasedScrewfix Select

Domestic wiring is not that complicated. You don't need to worry about diversity unless there are any particularly unusually high loads. Bungalows are a cinch to wire, all done through the loft and down the walls; electricians dream.

All circuits are 'standard' in domestic. The On-site Guide lists all the standard circuits with the cable size and max rating. You don't design the cable sizes if you follow the simple rules. Diversity is already allowed for in the simplified standard circuits. For sockets, if you like ring circuits use 2.5mm2 T&E on a 32A breaker. If not use 32A (4mm2) 20A or 16A radials. Cooker circuit 6mm2 T&E in to a 45A rated cooker control. Showers 10mm2 and 45A/50A switch covers all ratings up to 10.5kW. These days kitchens are usually wired as 32A rings and the rest of the circuits are radials. Bedrooms on one radial, lounge/dining, hall on another radial, lights are radials anyway. Individual radials are normally smokes, immersion, outside outbuildings/sheds.

The comments relating to legalities are all valid. I don't condone breaking 'rules' but I have given up on worrying about 'rules' and what I find in people's homes. Pretty much every house in the entire UK has a bodge or something not right somewhere. Its best to just focus on your own standards and stop worrying about the rubbish you find done by others. In practice you will never get prosecuted for doing your own thing. It is nigh on impossible to prove who did it and the governing bodies have no real interest in prosecuting people. If you report anything they don't care. Building Control especially have no interest whatsoever.

9. ### masterdiyScrewfix Select

sweeneyuk, Why not get your "friend in trade " to do the job for you, & you help in a constructive way. Hence cutting the time to do it down.
Then they can sign off & certificate for you knowing the job.?
Just an idea.

10. ### ComlecScrewfix Select

You keep posting this at every opportunity yet never support your opinion with any evidence. I for one would be happy to read it.

11. ### Deleted member 11267Guest

I have on quite a few occasions been asked to go and put right shoddy work carried out by the untrained 5 week wonders.
I am not the only person that has had do this as I know other Electricians who have had to do the same.
It is not right that these people are having over the public, by saying they are Electricians to the householder, who has to pay twice to get the job done properly.

12. ### Deleted member 11267Guest

Why would you wire all Bungalows through the loft? Surely you would only do this if it was a solid floor. Why would you not run the sockets under the floor if it was a timber floor, this would cut down on an awful lot of mess and making good.

13. ### ComlecScrewfix Select

Nice anecdotes but I asked for evidence. Look forward to the links

Enjoy them.

15. ### unphasedScrewfix Select

Too many jobsworths in this trade, too, Deleted member 11267. People who always criticise others because they think they know better. "Been asked to go and put right shoddy work". Who asks you and under what circumstances? My experience is nobody wants to know about shoddy work so how come you are asked to put stuff right! Wishful thinking on your part no doubt to look good on a forum.

16. ### unphasedScrewfix Select

Yes you could run some cables through the floor. Do you want me to list every possible scenario? In general bungalows are wired through the loft. Good god you just have to have a dig at every opportunity. Jobsworth.

17. ### BazzaScrewfix Select

The usual bungalow method is a ring final / finals round the roof and spurs from JBs down to sockets in the rooms.

some people need to get out more

18. ### Bogle CragScrewfix Select

I have also spent lots of time putting work right , carried out by full NIC/ECA approved contractors

Deleted member 11267 likes this.
19. ### Deleted member 11267Guest

Do not disagree, I have come across a lot of bad workmanship, raf work by them as well.

20. ### sparky steveScrewfix Select

Don’t get asked to put right shoddy work, but have encountered many examples over the years