Can I temporarily insulate a conservatory roof?

Discussion in 'Builders' Talk' started by tonynoarm, Nov 12, 2006.

  1. fooman

    fooman New Member

    ok sh$t for brains last time i will try and explain anything to you.

    That thermometer you have got measure the temprature of the room where you are sitting typing the sh$t you post on here and tell me the temp. Say 4ft from the floor.

    Then stand on a chair and measure the temp about 1" from the ceiling and tell me that.

    You will find it is hotter near the ceiling as thats where the heat is going.

    THEN STICK THAT THERMOMETER WHERE THE SUN DON'T SHINE YOU THICKO
     
  2. Mr. Handyandy

    Mr. Handyandy Screwfix Select

    AGAIN


    Go sit in the effin roofspace then, nerdbrain.

    > Wonder what heat does when there's coldness in the
    air below ?///

    What does it do foolman ?


    Mr. HandyAndy - really
     
  3. fooman

    fooman New Member

    AGAIN


    Go sit in the effin roofspace then, nerdbrain.

    > Wonder what heat does when there's coldness in
    the
    air below ?///

    What does it do foolman ?


    Mr. HandyAndy - really


    its ferking rises !!!! god you are thick !!!
     
  4. flyons

    flyons New Member

  5. Mr. Handyandy

    Mr. Handyandy Screwfix Select

    AGAIN


    Go sit in the effin roofspace then, nerdbrain.

    > Wonder what heat does when there's coldness
    in
    the
    air below ?///

    What does it do foolman ?


    Mr. HandyAndy - really


    > its ferking rises !!!! god you are thick !!!




    Yes fool, it rises. It rises ABOVE the cold. It rises above the cold because it is lighter than the cold air.

    So, if we remove the cold air from below the warm air, we will get more of an equilibrium, and the warm air below will not so readily rise and disappear into the roof space.

    We can help remove the cold air from below by preventing the glass from cooling it.

    Curtains will do this by creating a barrier. Not a 100% barrier, but a good one nevertheless.

    Do you now see, FOOLMAN ?

    If it is cool below, MORE heat will be lost through the roof, because the cool air pushes it there.


    I cannot explain it any clearer than that(pre-school teaching is not my forte).




    Mr. HandyAndy - really
     
  6. tonynoarm

    tonynoarm New Member

    Thanks chaps for all your opinions - what interesting reading the debates are creating!!

    Thermal efficiency must be a factor to take into account. The windows are double glazed laminated K glass, as is the glazing in the doors. The roof is poly carb.

    Thermal efficiency of the glass is far superior to the poly carb so I agree, the place to concentrate on preventing the greatest level of heat loss must be the poly carb.

    Keep the debate going lads - its great entertainment!

    Regards

    Tony
     
  7. dirtydeeds

    dirtydeeds New Member

    cold air drops (down the glass windows)andys suggestion of curtaining has been used for CENTURIES

    hot air rises so insulate the roof as well, this is also centries old. thatched roofs (ie insulated) are much warmer
     
  8. Jimbo

    Jimbo Screwfix Select

    Even k-glass is a pretty useless insulator compared to an insulated cavity wall. This is why most new-builds have rather small windows.

    I read somewhere that very good effective u-values can be achieved with k but this depends on it being sunny outside, obviously this won't help at night.

    There is massive heat loss from the windows and roof of the conservatory, no point insulating one without the other. Ie, you need curtains and roof blinds. Even so there won't be much improvement because there will still be plenty of gaps for air to circulate and hence heat to be lost.

    Actually the roofs can be better that you might think - I used to have a heated conservatory with poly carb roof, and actually snow wouldn't melt from it.

    The simplest way to get a 'feel' of the loss points is to measure the surface temperatures - glass, walls, and roof.

    Also, some conservatories have poor sealing around roof panels (they just sit on rubber blocks which tend to shrink and the polycarb tends to bend a bit creating gaps at each end) and sometimes exposed (but visually hidden) aluminium runs which create a heat-sink directly to outside!
     
  9. kark999

    kark999 New Member

    I've read your comments on you changing you conservatory roof to more traditional. If possible could you e-mail me a few more details how you done it .

    I've got a 4 x 3m edwardian upvc conservatory and want to change it to a more traditional insulated roof.

    Many Thanks

    Karl
     
  10. Welshmally

    Welshmally New Member

    Surely Handy and Fooman BOTH are right: insulating one without the other is pointless. However, having just converted my loft, I realise why the insulation in the cheeks of the dormer is thinner than in the pitched roof area: the heat loss through the roof is greater.

    Therefore, the logical step would be to insulate the roof better than the windows, but doing one without the other would not give a significant improvement. If I had to do only one, it would certainly be the roof as the temperature gradient between the roof and outside would be greater than that between the windows and outside (as a consequence of heat rising and the temperature in the roof space being higher).
    Or am I completely wrong?
    WM
     
  11. evo nut

    evo nut New Member

    Kark999 and WM

    This is a 2006 post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  12. Welshmally

    Welshmally New Member

    Eh? What? Well nobody told me!The term dozy get springs to mind.....
     
  13. devil's advocate

    devil's advocate New Member

    Yes, but kark999 still needs help...
     
  14. multijack

    multijack Member

    Who cares if its a 2006 post...its still the best fight...I mean discussion I've seen on here.;-)
     
  15. gormac

    gormac New Member

    Hi Guys,

    I know this is an old post but I've just carried out this work on my conservatory.

    I started off by fitting 3 horizontal rows of 2x1" batons. I then filled the gaps with sections of multi-layer foil. (available from Screwfix)
    Next, I fitted vertical batons. This maintains the recommended 25mm gap for the foil.
    I then filled these gaps with 25mm Kingspan and sealed the lot with foil tape.

    I contemplated fitting 9.5mm plasterboard over the insulation but decided against it for a number of reasons including the mess involved, one man working, the need to plaster the joints, possibility of cracking due to movement in high winds/snowfall, but mostly due to the added weight.

    I scoured DIY shops looking for alternatives. Cladding seemed to be the answer, but wood seemed a bit too much work and weight so I settled un uPVC. The cost of this in B&Q, etc is pretty extortionate and they only do 2m lengths so it would mean extra joints.
    I finally found a local supplier who specialises in guttering, etc. The stuff I got is white T&G cladding, sold in 5m lengths. Prob for outdoor use but it looks spot on once fitted.
    I also bought edging and trims from the same place. It worked out about half the price of B&Q.

    I attached it to the vertical batons using a staple gun as it really is light as a feather.

    I am delighted with the final result.
    Not only does it look great, but now in the winter with the heater on, it heats up within a couple of minutes and actually RETAINS the heat, just what I was after!
     
    Julie M S and chrissie2007 like this.
  16. Photos?

    Ta much.
     
  17. gormac

    gormac New Member

    Before-
    [​IMG]

    Multifoil and batons fitted-

    [​IMG]

    Finishing off with Kingspan-

    [​IMG]

    Finished Result-

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Oooooooh, that's not 'alf bad. :)

    I hadn't realised you'd kept it vaulted - that's really nice.

    Cooooooooool...
     
  19. stephens1947

    stephens1947 New Member

    This just what we need!  A few questions please -

    Any problem with condensation
    Are you using the conservatory as a normal room now
    Is the heat retained in the winter
    Whats it like in the summer with no sun coming in the roof
    Did it cost much
     
  20. I doubt Gormac will reply - tho' perhaps the forum will automatically email him of a new post?

    Anyways, I would imagine that:
    (a) No problems with condensation - at least not on the roof section. The conservatory windows might still be the coldest surafces in the house so will likely be the first to get condensation in winter time, tho' since the whole conni will now be a lot warmer than before, I'd imagine it'll be a lot less.
    (b) Um, er, I dunno. But almost certainly yes.
    (c) Well, duh, like, yeah, man. Tho' with all the glass it'll still be more difficult to heat than a normal room.
    (d) If your conni is south-facing, it'll almostr certainly be a much more tolerable room - without having to open all the windows and doors to let a draught through. Have you ever been in a south-facing conni with no blinds? Jeeezuzzzz. (I have an extension to my house which is like a conni - all glass walls - except it has a proper roof and ceiling. It is north-facing. In the summer months, wjhen the sun catches the sides in the morning and evenings, it's stooopidly hot in there)
    (d) If DIYed, it shouldn't cost much at all. I actually think Gormac well over t'top with his insulation - using both insulating foil and Kingspan strikes me as being overkill. How much for a few sheets of thin Kingspan? Plus some battens, screws, etc? And whatever finish you choose.

    I'd be inclined to use just the thinnest Kingspan/Celotex - is it 25 or 35mm thick? Easy to cut neatly to fit the roof shape, and tape all the edges to seal them and prevent draughts - also against the conni frame along the window tops. Then cover with whatever decorative finish you choose. Timber battens may be needed if you're going for a more substantial finish like wot Gor used (use treated roofing battens).
     

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