Discussion in 'Builders' Talk' started by tonynoarm, Nov 12, 2006.
Sorry I ment to the ones who has poly roof. Even when it's spitting it sounds like it's hail stone!
I'd have thought that the layer of insulation followed by either plasterboard or cladding would help quite a bit?
I have just insulated my conservatory roof with super quilt.i have done mine so the roof is flat. Will get pics in a sec. when I put the plaster board up and had it skimmed it wasn't drying around the edges on where the windows are. So I cut a 5mm gap between the plaster board and the window frame all round. And within a few hours it dried! So then I painted the roof and sealed that 5mm gap with white silicone. This morning I checked on the roof was nice and warm for the 1st ever time! But all around the window edge where the silicone is it was dripping wet! It's only the rear and 1 side witch where the windows are it gets wet. The other 2 walls are fine!
It is very cold outside. Is it because the cold aluminium frame is really cold and the warm air in the conservatory is causing the wet edge.?
Pics so can see what I mean
That is condensation, no question I don't think - it is not coming from behind.
What a pain on an otherwise cracking job
I fear it's a super-quilt issue - that stuff, by all accounts, is great, provided it is able to expand and actually become an insulating material. If it's compressed betwixt two surfaces then only the foil aspect is doing anything - and that's not a lot.
I'd personally much rather use a Celotex-type insulation layer and then you know what you are getting.
Solutions? I think what I'd be tempted to do is to try a simple insulating cover-up! Search around for small-profile expanded polystyrene coving - stuff that's a plain profile (curve) and chust 40-odd mm extension. I think something like that might do the job.
It would need perfectly sealing along its edges so that no warm air trickles behind it where it could condense, but I think that should work - if you can stop warm moist air getting to that corner, then these condensation issues should stop.
If you are brave enough - and have a method of holding the coving tight against the corner - you might even want to risk attaching it using foam adhesive - just a thin bead along the back, hold it position with a timber batten pressing firmly against it along its length and a diagonal prop from the floor. If you could make it effectively a 'solid' foam coving against that corner I think you'd have cracked it.
But even without that drama, I think it should work (although there's a theoretical risk that a small amount of moist air could peculate through the p'board around the corners and make its way behind the coving to condense out?
You might get away with chust using an insulated PVC trim - the sort of stuff that's used in window fitting and has a solidish foam centre. Don't use hollow stuff.
Basically, some sort of insulated cover that will both 'seal' that corner and add to its insulation is what's need as a 'simple' solution. Anything else, I think, will be a 'cut-away-an-edge-strip-of-p'board-and-add-proper-insulation' solution.
(You could do this if needed - use a guide spacer and a sharp blade to score an even line around - ooh - 40+mm away from the corners. Work that cut until you can remove that strip of p'board. Fill that gap tightly with a layer of insulating foam and overboard with a decorative PVC trim, sealing it at both edges.)
Hi mate many thanks for your reply and all info much appreciated!
1 thing it's not just the corner it's all the way round the edge it's getting wet mate. Only on the window sides.
Will have a search now for some coving ect and have a good think witch option to go with. Would it be worth me pulling out that silicone from around the edge so then nothing is touching the aluminium frame then putting a coving all way round making sure it's thick enough to cover the aluminium frame and then sealing it with silicone?
I have attached a pic of the aluminium frame on where the plaster board butts up to. So u no what I mean it's always wet that frame even before putting the plaster board up... i also put 100mm knuf sound insulation on top of the beams. .
Just found this coving. Would this do it mate
? It's not polystyrene though?
Also I think I need something that sets off quick otherwise if I use say silicone to stick the coving the wet will get under it before it sets?
If I do End up having to cut 40mm of the board away from the edge you say fill the gap with foam? Like expanding foam adsive? Or I have some single bubble wrap foiled both sides I could cut strips off it and stick it in the 40mm gap?
But I think I will try the coving 1st saves a lot of mess
1 last thing I have just pulled out all the silicone all way round as with it touching the frame then touching the plaster it's making the plaster wet. So now it has no contact with the plaster at all. So then just stick the coving on and seal
It will still get wet with condensation though? Should you not find a permanent cure first before putting coving up?
Soz, by 'corners' I did mean mean the 'corner' join between the ceiling and the wall - ie - all of it. I'm as certain as a certain thing that this is condensation and not the only other alternative - moisture coming through from behind. The way the beads of water forms is classic condensation.
No harm - I don't think - in removing the silicone beading, but it wasn't the cause, and as soon as you prevent warm damp air (ie - the air in yer hoosie) from reaching that corner, you should be fine. Even if the sili were still there.
That coving you linked to looks ideal to me - it is poly, so will be a type of expanded foam. Likely to be decent insulation value but, more importantly, will be impermeable to moisture - so the warm damp air won't get through to condense on the cold surface behind it.
I'm not too surprised this has happened as the top part of your wall's frame (the bit that runs horizontally along the top) is bound to be the coldest bit in that room - ergo the condensiest.
Don;t worry about the wet sili underneath. I'd give it a wipe, perhaps run a hair dryer or summat over it (or chust shut the house's doors in to the connie and leave the connie's windows open to vent it dry) and then stick that coving up and ensure it's sealed all the way along both edges.
I think it'll be the end of yer problems.
But don't come back on here crying if...
It's simply because it's the coldest edge in the whole room, coupled with the fact it's 'open' to the room's warm moist air that condensation forms.
Once he seals it away from the room's air, it should be fine - the warm moisture-laden air can no longer get to it.
The coving has been done! Looks a lot neater and there is no signs of any damp water ect bone dry all way round.
Only thing I wasn't happy about is i sealed it with a multi purpose cheap stuff witch I had spare http://www.diy.com/departments/sani...nt-310-ml/270887_BQ.prd?tab=reviews&rrec=true
Looking at reviews now seems no good for the job so I may just go over it again with a proper white silicone sealant just for peace of mind...
But all is good thanks for your help devil much appreciated!!
Thanks for reporting back, Daniel.
I agree with Kools - that looks really good .
Why do you think the sili isn't ideal? I mean, it isn't what I'd have recommended but as long as it's bonded and sealed the coving in place then I don't think you'll have any issues at all. (It chust isn't an 'adhesive', so not as much instant 'grab' as proper adhesives would have. But, once set, it should be more than good enough.)
That corner edge behind the coving will be as cold as ever, of course, but the whole point is that moist air can no longer get to it to condense out.
Just going off reviews on that product mate I am prob just being fussy. It says it takes 10mins to fully dry at 5mm thick but it's taken over 24hours lol it feels like decorators caulk texture but as long as it's sealed and no air can get through it then I am sure it be ok init. It was only used to seal. I used double sided gurilla tape to stick the coving in place then sealed with that stuff... the tape is so bloody strong i made a mistake on the corner cut so when I tried to pull it off it just wouldn't come away! So had to break it then scrape it off but had plenty of coving left anyway but atleast I no the tape is bloody strong lol
I guess it's cold in there? Perhaps worth shoving in a good heater for an hour - or wait for the sun to come out - like it has down here. It's BLAZIN'!
I have some questions I hope some of you may be able to answer, set out below.
I have a 4.5 x 3.5 Edwardian style roof conservatory.
I have looked various insulated roofs and a competed job at £7,000 is just a no no.
I've decided to do it myself and use timber batons covered with Celotex or Kingspan seconds which makes the job about £130 for materials, so far so good.
Now come to the awkward part, condensation/leaks where to channel them.
Is it nessessary to drill holes for ventilation?
Is there a drip channel on the market that would take away any moisture?
I have actually designed a drip channel that would work with rigid and flexible insulation but wonder if there is a market out there, before incurring patent design and tool making costs.
Thanks in advance.
Where would you anticipate this drip channel being required?
I would imagine that above the insulation will be well ventilated through the normal gaps you get in the eaves and the ridge. Sometimes you'll find foam strips have been placed in there, so perhaps cut into this a few times to keep the upper section ventilated would be good.
The idea, tho', is to fully seal the room from the area above the new insulation, so don't add any vents to the new ceiling.
Thanks for the reply.
Yes the inside will be fully sealed.
Forgot there was vents at the top even though I built it!
My idea is for small drip channel to fasten parallel to the ring beam at the top edge of the insulation to catch any condensation or leaks running off. More concerned about unseen leaks.
The channel would drain out at either end through a small attached pipe and then through the ring beam.
The same idea would work with blanket insulation.
Is there anything like this on the market?
I can design it but not manufacture it as it would be best in plastic or aluminium and too fiddly.
Just something I would like to do before sealing everything.
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