Can I wire a bathroom myself and get it signed off?

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by Schmores, Jan 7, 2014.

  1. Schmores

    Schmores New Member

    I am currently redoing the bathroom in the house we just purchased. I am planning on installing:
    • Mira Platinum Shower - 3A
    • AKW D17 Waste Pump - 5A
    • Illuminated mirror with shaver socket and demister
    There is already a fused circuit going into the bathroom to where I assume a power shower was but its now just a bare wire with the fuse pulled from the circuit where it ends in the airing cupboard next door to the bathroom.

    My question is, can I carry out any of the work wiring it up myself if I get it signed off by the council or does all of it have to be done by a sparky? I am planning on reusing the existing circuit for at least one of the devices though I guess I cant use it for all of them?

    There is also no RCD in the circuit (or the consumer unit) so I guess I will need to add one? I was thinking about one of these:

    All off the wiring will be behind stud work and aquapanel.

    The internet seems to give conflicting information on whats allowed so any advice is greatly appreciated.


  2. Devil's Advocate

    Devil's Advocate Well-Known Member

    Hi Tom.

    Hopefully a sparkie will be along to provide conclusive info - if such a thing exists for 'PartP' stuff. (Is it still even called 'PartP'?!)

    Based on my own house renovation around 7 years ago, I suspect very strongly that your three options will be: (1) employ a sparky. (2) Inform the Council BCO in advance of your intention and they will come out to 'pass' your work - and charge you for this. (3) Go ahead and do it anyway and keep quiet about it. But you better make sure it's done 100% correctly.
  3. Quiche81

    Quiche81 Member

    Most Sparkys won't sign off other peoples work per say, I get asked pretty often and I just politely decline it.
  4. stateit

    stateit Well-Known Member

    If the electrician is involved in inspecting first and second fix stages, the electrician is now allowed to test and certify and sign off the work to Building Control.

    What that might cost the customer is entirely up to the electrician...
  5. Schmores

    Schmores New Member

    Thanks for the responses, so Quiche you wouldn't be willing to sign off on first and second stage fix like stateit? Surely at this point no actual connections have been made? I would be happy to do first and second stage and get the final fix done by a professional.

    Also can I add an RCD to the existing circuit in the airing cupboard or does it need to be on a separate circuit from the CU?

    If so it sounds like I would be better off getting a completely new CU with RCD built into it at which point a sparky is obviously a necessity.
  6. Sean_ork

    Sean_ork Screwfix Select

    the cost of doing the work, and getting it certified via building control is (for the work mentioned) likely to be around the same as if you got a real electrician in to do the work (and to self certify)

    if you are tempted to do all of the work yourself, remember that it will need testing - and you could easily spend £1500+ on the required equipment
  7. Quiche81

    Quiche81 Member

    Its not me being difficult or awkward, its purely down to the amount of times I get calls about 'sticking a ticket' on something, usually I get the 'My mate recommended you' or 'cant get hold of the other electrician' kind of call. involvement from start to finish so i can see everything going in then maybe, it'd depend upon meeting the person and coming to an arrangement.
  8. Schmores

    Schmores New Member

    Quiche, thanks for explaining, I wasn't thinking you were being awkward at all, just trying to get a handle on your perspective as I would imagine it would be the position a lot of electricians would take.

    I will make some enquiries with electricians in London and get some idea if they would be willing to oversee the job.
  9. MGW

    MGW Active Member

    I stand to be corrected on this but I am lead to understand in England (Not Wales) an electrician is by law allowed to sign off work like the LABC however at the moment non of the scheme providers have taken this on board so in practice electricians still can't sign off other peoples work.

    Also the English LABC were suppose to review their charges. As it was work went into bands according to cost of work being done but first band was up to £2000 worth of work so to add a shaver socket in a bathroom was the same fee as full re-wire.

    England, Wales, Ireland and Scotland all have different rules so where you live is important when answering this question.

    As to RCD there are RCD fused connection units which are likely the easiest way to add a RCD for low powered circuits.

    I have tried to read the new English rules and big thing is before it listed what you can do without notifying now it lists what requires notifying what is interesting is the 600mm rule so it is possible that although in a bathroom it is still not notifiable. The Mira Platinum Shower may need notifying for the controller to me to pay £200 just to fit the control head is rather silly. However it is you that must decide if to comply or not.

    Although you don't need to notify many jobs in England now they still have to comply with BS7671:2008 amendment 1 in Wales still BS7671:2001 still can't believe they stipulated the year. But all the BS7671 regulations require the alterations to be inspected and tested and a Minor Works Certificate issued and in the main to hire the test set will cost around £75 and if the correct procedure is not followed one can get lethal shocks trying to test. The C&G 2391 exam which tests as to if the electrician has the required skill to test has quite a high failure rate even after 12 x 2.5 hour college lessons and this is for electricians so in real terms your chance of being able to inspect and test safely is low.

    So unless the job is inspected by the LABC then it is unlikely to comply with the regulations what ever you do. That includes all DIY electrical work. Clearly DIY does go on and what you have to do is a risk assessment. Is the money saved worth the risk? Only you can answer that question.

    When you decide there are still two options. One get it tested to ensure your family is safe. Two make it fully complaint so you can sell the house.

    Personally if I was doing major work in my own house I would involve the LABC, but for minor work I would likely not bother as I don't intend to sell my house. Also all alterations were planned before 2004 so technically don't need notifying. But for anyone else then I expect them to notify the LABC where required. However since my LABC does not issue a permit to work it is all down to the house owner to tell me the truth. If they lie I have no way of knowing.
  10. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    Scmores the wiring is very simple for a sparky and if you are willing to pay for the spark to do it it may be easier for the spark to install it and give you a cert rather than getting someone in to just inspect and test. Just a thought. :)
  11. stateit

    stateit Well-Known Member

    UP: NAPIT allow this now (my scheme) and reading through NICEIC's bumph they do. So I assume other schemes do as well.

    If you're not sure about your scheme, phone them up and ask. An answer is only a phone call away.
  12. MGW

    MGW Active Member

    Thank you stateit this is why I said I stand to be corrected knew it would happen some time.
  13. Walter System

    Walter System Member

    I know a few that do. They sign off work done by guys they know like in house renovation work. The builders know how to run cable and more than the basics of the regs. They do all the wiring and even CU work.

    I know some great electricians who mainly do commercial work. Occasionally they do domestic and have to get a Part P guy to sign it off. Crazy!!
  14. JP.

    JP. Screwfix Select

  15. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    It is not crazy because it is a requirement for a domestic electrician to be able to self-certify, it has nothing whatsoever to do with whether the spark is capable, has years of experience, knows what he is doing etc. etc. Part P Law requires Part P registration. It affected every domestic electrician. Most electricians in the UK viewed it as an afront on their capabilities. Whether it proved to be the case or not it stll dosen't alter the fact that only Part P registered electricians are legally allowed to self-certify. That's just the way it is.
  16. joinerjohn1

    joinerjohn1 Screwfix Select

    What get's me though is,, LABC can sign off work.. This doesn't necessarily make them qualified to do so, specially with relation to electrical jobs. I suspect however that they sub electrical inspection work out to,,, yet another electrician (probably the ones who say they don't inspect others work, but need the money) ;);)

    I know some building inspectors , I wouldn't trust to inspect a tent. ;);)
  17. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    Yes, JJ, thats is exactly what does happen. The LABC employed their own sparks to do the signing off on their behalf. They probably insisted on NICEIC sparks, even though they are not supposed to exhibit favouritism and would always deny it, and probably used their own "pals" to do it. Not that I am cynical or bitter you understand.
  18. joinerjohn1

    joinerjohn1 Screwfix Select

    Ahh, not even a gentle hint at cynicism or bitterness in that post. :D:D:D:D:D:D:D
  19. sparky Si-Fi

    sparky Si-Fi Well-Known Member

    LABC run to the hills with a mention of third party signatures, they are not interested unless a significant dollar value is attached to it.

    Why do you think its so expensive to get them out?

    They want a name, any name to put forward if all goes wring, except their own of course so they are not deemed incompetent in their selection of sparks

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