Car crash

[btiw2]

You are obviously not conversant with the building trades, as that is how wages are generally discussed.

Heh. Not conversant with building trade employment practice, no.

I sometimes get puzzled when people quote amounts. I once was impressed when someone told me they were on four-fifty for a relatively unskilled job. I assumed it was £450 per week, turned out it was £4.50 per hour. Agricultural wages had a minimum wage exemption back then.

Happy to learn though. Enlighten me. How does it work?

I pay by the month. I expect people to turn up every day (except booked holidays) whilst under their contract of employment. But, as you suggest, my experience is a little different to yours.

 

[SWBUILDERS]

Heh. Not conversant with building trade employment practice, no.

I sometimes get puzzled when people quote amounts. I once was impressed when someone told me they were on four-fifty for a relatively unskilled job. I assumed it was £450 per week, turned out it was £4.50 per hour. Agricultural wages had a minimum wage exemption back then.

Happy to learn though. Enlighten me. How does it work?

I pay by the month. I expect people to turn up every day (except booked holidays) whilst under their contract of employment. But, as you suggest, my experience is a little different to yours.

Labour only sub Contractors are all self employed, sole trader businesses in their own right, this is how most people in the construction industry work, then they work for a contractor who the pays them less 20% tax and then that tax is paid to the revenue department (Construction industry scheme) so basically when you become a contractor you also get a job as a tax collect for hmrc but unfortunately you don't get paid for it!!

 

[chippie244]

£150 for an 8 hour day is well over minimum wage.

 

[longboat]

At the moment I'm not employing anybody as the red tape is too much hassle but when I did I was paying £150 a day.
I was a very good employer but unfortunately some very rich bankers decided to ruin the economy and screwed my business.
My ex workers still ask if they can work for me again..

How much did you make on top of that £150/day for every 'worker' you employed?
You can't have been very good at the business end of things if you so easily threw in the towel and ended up an employee yourself?

 

[chippie244]

Labour only sub Contractors are all self employed, sole trader businesses in their own right, this is how most people in the construction industry work, then they work for a contractor who the pays them less 20% tax and then that tax is paid to the revenue department (Construction industry scheme) so basically when you become a contractor you also get a job as a tax collect for hmrc but unfortunately you don't get paid for it!!

And that, as well as the recession, is why I changed my business model so instead of employing people who pay tax I employ nobody.

 

[SWBUILDERS]

£150 for an 8 hour day is well over minimum wage.

I pay between 130-160 for a Chippy dependant on experience and gear they own, £125 for a decorator and but if I had to pay all labourers £10 per hour then that would cost me money as I couldn't justify charging them out for that

 

[btiw2]

£150 for an 8 hour day is well over minimum wage.

Yeah. Thanks chips. I did the maths.

And good for you in paying a decent wage (offering a decent sub-contract).

But it's interesting to me. It seems to fall into that grey area between employee and "zero hours" that is so contentious at the moment.

 

[chippie244]

How much did you make on top of that £150/day for every 'worker' you employed?
You can't have been very good at the business end of things if you so easily threw in the towel and ended up an employee yourself?

No I'm not a good business man, I'm just a chippie.
How many multinational companies do you run?

 

[SWBUILDERS]

Yeah. Thanks chips. I did the maths.

And good for you in paying a decent wage (offering a decent sub-contract).

But it's interesting to me. It seems to fall into that grey area between employee and "zero hours" that is so contentious at the moment.

If a sub contractor works only for one contractor for more than 6 months they are deemed to be employed, big employment tribunal recently involving just that subject between pimlico plumbers and one of there subcontractors

 

[chippie244]

I pay between 130-160 for a Chippy dependant on experience and gear they own, £125 for a decorator and but if I had to pay all labourers £10 per hour then that would cost me money as I couldn't justify charging them out for that

Labourers got basic but as they got trained up their money went up.

 

[SWBUILDERS]

Labourers got basic but as they got trained up their money went up.

Of course but if the start off pay was set at what now is skilled labourer money the pay gap between the trades and labourers would decrease pretty quickly and I'm sure the bonafide trades would be felling underpaid, I mean why bother outlaying thousands on tools,insurance and vehicles when you could be earning a couple quid an hr less for sweeping up!!

 

[chippie244]

Yeah. Thanks chips. I did the maths.

And good for you in paying a decent wage (offering a decent sub-contract).

But it's interesting to me. It seems to fall into that grey area between employee and "zero hours" that is so contentious at the moment.

I got caught by CSI.
I was restoring sash windows in mainly victorian houses using chippies and painters from the entertainment industry who are taxed differently.
After an investigation it was found that all taxes had been paid but unlike Longboat I couldn't afford to pay for the office staff just to deal with the paperwork.

 

[chippie244]

Of course but if the start off pay was set at what now is skilled labourer money the pay gap between the trades and labourers would decrease pretty quickly and I'm sure the bonafide trades would be felling underpaid, I mean why bother outlaying thousands on tools,insurance and vehicles when you could be earning a couple quid an hr less for sweeping up!!

What is minimum wage now, £7.50?

How much did you make on top of that £150/day for every 'worker' you employed?
You can't have been very good at the business end of things if you so easily threw in the towel and ended up an employee yourself?

I am still self employed.

 

[longboat]

No I'm not a good business man, I'm just a chippie.
How many multinational companies do you run?

So, you gave them the work because you're such a nice person and making any kind of profit from their labour would contravene your principles.
Yeah, ok.
If you say so.

 

[chippie244]

So, you gave them the work because you're such a nice person and making any kind of profit from their labour would contravene your principles.
Yeah, ok.
If you say so.

Did I say any of that or are you just making stuff up for a change?
Of course I charged them out for more than I paid them.

 

[chippie244]

How many companies do you run Longboat?

 

[longboat]

I got caught by CSI.
I was restoring sash windows in mainly victorian houses using chippies and painters from the entertainment industry who are taxed differently.
After an investigation it was found that all taxes had been paid but unlike Longboat I couldn't afford to pay for the office staff just to deal with the paperwork.

I don't employ anyone, I do use subcontractors now and then when the need arises, but, I certainly don't blame wealthy individuals for my own lack of wealthinessssss.

Vote, Corby, he'll make all of us all rich beyond our dreams, won't he?

Sucker.

 

[fillyboy]

I always chuckle [1] when I hear a remainer say that Brexit is going to erode all the job security and fair working conditions that have only existed since we joined the EU.
I don't recall zero hour contracts in the seventies.

[1] PMSL

 

[chippie244]

I don't employ anyone, I do use subcontractors now and then when the need arises, but, I certainly don't blame wealthy individuals for my own lack of wealthinessssss.

Vote, Corby, he'll make all of us all rich beyond our dreams, won't he?

Sucker.

Yet again did I say any of those things?

 

[chippie244]

I always chuckle [1] when I hear a remainer say that Brexit is going to erode all the job security and fair working conditions that have only existed since we joined the EU.
I don't recall zero hour contracts in the seventies.

[1] PMSL

Who said that?