Ceiling spot lights

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by Greenveg, May 23, 2018.

  1. Greenveg

    Greenveg New Member

    Hi,
    I have four ceiling halogen spotlights in my bathroom. Three are GU10, and the one above the shower cubilcle is MR16 12 v. I want to change these to LED. Looking at Scrwfix online, there is such a large selection. They have GU10 3 pack at £3.99, and MR16 at £2.59 for one. Some of the lamps cost more for one, than say, a pack of five. Would the ones that I have mentioned be ok for a small bathroom, as obviously, there must be a difference between the more expensive ones.
    Regards.
     
  2. Dr Bodgit

    Dr Bodgit Super Member

    Greenveg likes this.
  3. Bazza

    Bazza Screwfix Select

    Note that the 12v lamp will come complete with a power supply that is designed to drive halogen 12v lamps. It will probably not work with LED lamps as the wattage will be too low for the "power supply" to be effective. And a few other reasons.
    You will probably also have to swap said old supply for a compatible LED power supply (aka driver).
     
    Greenveg likes this.
  4. Greenveg

    Greenveg New Member

    Thank you very much for your replies. I live in a bungalow, so the attic is above the ceiling. Thanks also for the important advice regarding the MR16. I think that I will just replace the three GU 10's for now. Will the excisting power supplies for these three be ok.
     
  5. Bazza

    Bazza Screwfix Select

    If they are GU10 they will almost certainly by 230volts AC lamps. Check by reading what is written on the lamp!
    If so there will not be any PSUs on those three!
     
    Greenveg likes this.
  6. Greenveg

    Greenveg New Member

    The GU10 lamps say 240v, 20watt Flood which is the standard UK voltage, so I think that it should be ok.
     
  7. Greenveg

    Greenveg New Member

    The LED lamps are working fine, many thanks for all your advice. The light fittings are 50w IP65, they have a glass window. I have some of these fittings spare. Could I use them to replace the florescent fitting in my kitchen, or are they just for bathrooms.
     
  8. Yes, you can use them to replace the fluorescent.
     
  9. Bazza

    Bazza Screwfix Select

    You can, but the florry will give you much better light for the kitchen workspace. Put in downlights and you’ll then need to add some under cupboard lights or wear a head torch so you can see to cut up the mango.
     
  10. JP.

    JP. Screwfix Select

    Centre mounted ceiling florries make food look absolutely naff..the worst culprits being cool white
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2018
  11. Bazza

    Bazza Screwfix Select

    My gran can make any food look naff, even in candlelight:D
     
  12. JP.

    JP. Screwfix Select

  13. MGW

    MGW Screwfix Select

    I swapped my kitchen fluorescent for LED, seemed a good idea at time, but no where near as bright 2400 lumen instead of around 5500 lumen, house empty for 18 months and LED lasted just 2 years, so life of LED was less than fluorescent. Plus LED cost more, the second LED was even dimmer at 2000 lumen, but once the fitting was converted hard to swap it back.

    Some LED lamps have done very well, I have 10 bulbs in living room, and 6 bulbs in dinning room which are far better than the folded tube fluorescent they replaced, the MR16 G5.3 12 volt bulbs in bathroom also replaced with 50 Hz 12 volt LED replacements. If the 12 volt lamps are powered by transformers it is a straight swap, but if using electronic transformers the power supply needs changing.

    The replacements for MR16 12 volt come as three or more different types, most common is 12 volt 50 Hz which is AC, you can also get DC both fixed 12 volt and for caravans and boats 10 - 30 volt DC. They are not all the same.

    The lighting industry calls new items after what they replace, so you get fixed voltage power supplies and fixed current power supplies both called drivers, really only fixed current should be called drivers, but they have seen fit to call two completely different power supplies by the same name.

    The LED in theory is not any better than fluorescent, top efficiency for LED is around 110 lumen per watt, and fluorescent around 95 lumen per watt, but many LED are down to 75 lumen per watt. The modern fluorescent has to use HF electronic ballasts, but the comparison tables compare the LED with the old now discontinued wire wound ballast, so the charts and tables are completely wrong.

    So looking at a typical 5 foot fluorescent it draws around 65 watt with wire wound ballast but 55 watt with electronic ballast, plus the tubes last longer up to 1/3 again over wire wound, they also start quicker, and will still work with a large volt drop. So 5 foot around 5500 lumen, where a 4 watt GU10 is around 350 lumen, so you need 16 x 4W to replace one 5 foot tube.
     
  14. robertpstubbs

    robertpstubbs Screwfix Select

    But if you have 16 x 4W you can have them switched in groups, which could save electricity. And just have a few on when you get up at 3am to feed the cats and mix a Bloody Mary.

    Also with 16, you could vary the power/colour of the lamps in different parts of the kitchen.

    And when 1 of the 16 lamps blows, the other 15 should still work.

    I'm considering track lights to give even more flexibility.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2018
  15. Greenveg

    Greenveg New Member

    I am in a right quandary as what to do now. I changed three of the 240v, 50w lamps in my bathroom from halogen to LED cool white. I left the MR16 12v, 50w halogen over the shower cubicle as it is for the moment. The LED's give a lot more light than the halogens did. The fittings I intend for the the kitchen are all GU10 240v, 50 w. The kitchen is approximately 3.27 mts x 3 mts. I was thinking that six may be enough. I will be having a qualified electrician to do the fitting, wiring etc.
     
  16. robertpstubbs

    robertpstubbs Screwfix Select

    Not sure that 6 will be enough. But using GU10 fittings is a good idea because of the wide range of GU10 LED lamps available in different colours, wattages, and beam angles.

    Much better than using units with built in LEDs. When one goes wrong the whole unit will need replacing and will probably be discontinued.
     
  17. JP.

    JP. Screwfix Select

    Dunno if it helps Green - in my bathroom I have a 4 lamp spot light fitting which originally I fitted with 35w GU10 halogens. These halogens were blowing with monotonous regularity and in the end after consulting the forum I swapped these out for 50watt equivalent GU10 leds (warm white) ..never looked back m8. In what I dunno 18 months/2 years not one has blown and the light colour is excellent - more crisp then halogen but no horrible blue tinges and stuff, nearly all the lamps in my gaff now are led, and thanks must go to Kiab, and indeed the forum in general for advice on this.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2018
  18. robertpstubbs

    robertpstubbs Screwfix Select

    I only have to think of my mother's cooking to be sick. And I regularly have nightmares about the food I was fed in my childhood.

    When she lived with me for 2 years before going into a home, I couldn't eat anything cooked in my own kitchen and had to eat lunch in the pub and have takeaways for dinner every day for 2 years.
     
  19. MGW

    MGW Screwfix Select

    Lighting is dependent on wall colours, so white walls, ceiling and floor does not matter if small spots or large surface area lights. But if not white then area of the lamp matters, we traditionally covered the filament of the bulb with a pearl coated glass globe to help spread the light.

    So surface area if not white walls is important, so a 5" light is better than a 2" lamp, and as LED MR16 replacements get higher power some of the 2" is used for cooling.

    Ceiling height is also important, I fitted some low bay lights in a building 25 foot to ceiling and they worked well, but same lamps in a building 10 foot to ceiling were a failure.
     

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